The College Football thread

“Dayhiker, I didn't realize the hearing is this weekend. Not the best timing, eh? Dang, I might have to run down to Auburn Saturday just to hear the crowd noise (the ticket prices will keep me out of the stadium)!

Dunadan, I have only read enough Ayn Rand to determine I wasn't interested in reading any more. I heard a rumor once, though, that she was boinking Frank Lloyd Wright and that's when she came up with her idea for The Fountainhead. Don't know if it is true.”

“The woman lived off of men, thus blowing her whole self-determination argument. I have read that she received public assistance at one time.”

“Yeah, the hearing is the day of the Iron Bowl. We'll take it because the alternative is to wait until the Feb. hearing. Franchione is taping some comments. It's a shame he can't speak to them in person. He is an excellent speaker and is also on the CFA committe on ethics. I believe he chaired that committe at one time. This is the type person you need when saying you won't cheat anymore, someone who says it and MEANS it.”

“Won't cheat any more? Welcome to the second tier.”

“Spurrier turned us in on one charge because he said we bought the guy a truck. The guy said that the reason that he did NOT sign with Florida was that Spurrier kicked his dog while at the in house visit. That's pretty good technique.”

“Nobody's perfect, Dunadan. Don't know about public assistance but I heard that same thing about FLW. Great philosopher though.

Didn't like Ayn Rand, BobK? Hmmmm that explains a lot...

I am so embarassed. We went and ran the score up again. I just feel so guilty. The poor USC players! The poor USC coaches! The poor USC fans! Oh, the humanity! How can we ever lift our heads up? How can we ever appear in public without shame?

Of course, nobody mentioned Texas drubbing an over matched Kansas team 59-0. That was just good clean football. Talk about hypocrits.

Are we having fun yet? ;-)”

“Heading to Madison on Friday for Saturday's Wisconsin-Michigan game. My wife and one of our Madison friends are U-M alums, so we'll see how the Camp Randall crowd treats "the Go Blue enemy." In case any beer-drenched Badgers get their dander up, I'm tempted to wear a t-shirt that says "Don't blame me, I went to Michigan State," but I'm not sure that would make things any better in the long run. Go Big 10 -- screw the bowl system, we want our Rose Bowl back.”

“We do need our Rose Bowl back Pekka, but we also need some sort of playoff system.”

“Unfortunately the big 10 has beat itself to death to the point I heard that OSU still has a shot at a share of the title.

It's a kiss yer sister season.”

“So, what you're saying is, it's alright to talk the talk (Ayn Rand), but you don't have to walk the walk. If the world was run according to her, it would be a sorry place, indeed. She was just star struck by the rich folks.
Anyway, I digress...
There will come a time when Fla. is having a bad bowl game, (like against a Big 12 team this year), and they will get their butts kicked. I'm sure they will take it good-naturedly. Can the Jayhawks get on the Fla. schedule? They don't mind getting drubbed at all.”

“Fun, Arc? Sure! Always up for a good philosophical debate and/or rant based on our irrational lust for college football! LOL!

Yes, Frankie Lloyd was pretty much a waste as a human being. Screwed around on his wives, went bankrupt several times, borrowed money from friends supposedly to pay bills then spent it on toys, and didn't care if the buildings he designed leaked. If an architect does nothing else, he ought to at least keep the dang water out! He did some great design work, particularly his residential work and some of his ealier commercial work, but didn't appear to be the kind of guy you would want to hang with on a personal level.

Probably more informative than my lack of interest in Ayn Rand is the list of philosphers/writers who I admire, which include Plato, Sartre, Camus, Kazantzakis, and, architectually speaking, Robert Venturi. Venturi's architecture isn't all that great but his writings, particularly Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture, are extremely important philisophical works on architectural theory. I suspect your mileage will vary.

Now! Back to football! Not really any hypocrites here, Arclite. Nobody mentioned the Texas game, but nobody mentioned the Florida game either! LOL! What's up with that rant about your embarrassment? LOL! Sure, it was a tasteless exercise in excess, but we have come to expect nothing less from the coach that we love to hate! ;-) And, oh yeah. That Texas score was pretty tacky as well. Now, did I miss anybody? :-)

Have fun kicking FSU around next week! Definitely an off-year for them. I am getting more and more frightened about the bama game. A review of both their and our seasons shows fourth quarter luck more than anything as the big difference. A few missed field goals and we could have a worse record than Bama. Rumor has it that Dubose really let the Bama strength and conditioning program go to hell in a hand basket, which hopefully means they will be sucking wind in the fourth quarter come Saturday. I predict Auburn by three becuase of conditioning and home field advantage.

P.S. Dayhiker, Ayn Rand is a early 20th century philosopher with what many feel is a somewhat dubious philosophical position that selfishness is a virtue. She is best known for her fiction work "The Fountainhead" about some crazy-@ss architect who feels justified in terroristic destruction of buildings 'cuz he doesn't like how the owner modified the architect's design intent. But hey, don't take my word for it. Punch up Ayn Rand in your favorite search engine and read all about it. There are even societies devoted to her work, should you decide you like what she had to say.

Regards to all!”

“On Being and Nothingness. Now there's some existential...nevermind. Personally, I like Socrates, BobK. Question everything. I would be willing to debate objectivism with anyone, BobK and Dunadan. But not on our glorious football thread.

OK, let me break this down so that I can understand it. The criticisms about Spurrier are based on second hand (at best) sports writers and TV sound bites. Most of the people who criticize Spurrier do not pay much attention the other teams around the nation who score lots of points on inferior opponents. Nobody who has criticized Spurrier mentioned that he doesn?t take all the credit for winning but shoulders all the blame when Florida looses. Now that I?ve got that straight, let?s list the points of debate for and against scoring a lot of points:


For
1. It assures no late comebacks
2. Running a vast array of plays causes confusion for future opponents
3. Gaudy individual statistics are good for individual players
4. Gaudy individual statistics can improve a player?s chances of playing pro
5. Gaudy individual statistics can improve a pro player?s monetary value
6. Game experience helps second and third stringers to improve
7. Winning big impresses alumni who donate big to the University

Against
1. Loosing big may bruise fragile egos


By God, the point is made! Why didn?t I see it before? It is not fair to bruise fragile egos. It?s all about feelings and mediocrity, not logic and excellence. In fact, anyone who is really good at what they do should purposely dumb themselves down lest they offend someone who is not as competent. I have seen the light! Steve Superior is a bad man. His philosophy of sixty minutes of excellent football is evil. I have been in denial. Maybe it?s not too late for me. Maybe I can change my feelings of respect towards the evil genius, to ones of righteous anger.

That makes perfect sense. Righteous anger feels good doesn?t it? Somebody please tell me what the sports pundits think about righteous anger. I?m having trouble thinking for myself.


Boom-shakalaka-boom-shakalaka-boom.”

“BobK, you are correct about Dubose. Since Fran has been here the # of players benching 400# has probably quadrupled. The 4th qtr has been our Achilles heel. These kids are having to re-learn how to win. It's a good thing we don't play Florida this year. With our secondary we'd be debating whether 40 pts was a big enough scoring margin. Of course Stevie is the only coach to lose to the worst Bama coach in 50 years, twice in the same season. Anyway, as Coach Bryant used to say "Show class and act like you've been there before"”

“BobK, an interesting thing to me, as a structural engineer, is that Frankie was trained as a civil engineer. When the contractor for Fallingwater said that there was not enough steel in the cantilevers, he balked. The contractor didn't know what he was talking about. Oops.”

“Righteous anger? Does anyone have a clue what arclite is talking about? Righteous anger is what you reserve for @ssholes who kill 6000 U.S. citizens. Spurrier sure don't rate that!

Your babbling, dude. What say we all give it a rest?”

“"Show class and act like you've been there before"

I like that a lot! The teams, coaches and players, I respect the most seam to have that attitude. That's one reason I like Duke basketball. No matter how good they are, you never see them hot dog or taunt the other team.”

“It must be the fact that you disagree with my discourse that causes me to "babble", BobK. Good Lord, I love it so!

Yeah, Duke is a class act that never does anything wrong and never runs the score up. Burp! Sorry I must have swallowed something unpalatable.

This is a football thread, BobK, you're babbling.”

“Well, I take it arclite wants to continue the discussion. Why don't we start with your "for" list above:

1. It is not necessary to run up a 52 to zip score in the fourth quarter to assure a victory. And adding another 7 with less than two minutes to go is likewise excessive when you are up by 45. Do you dispute this specific statement?

2. Running a vast array of plays can be easily achieved without running up the score.

3. thru 5. Pros look for talented consistant players, and get them from all kinds of programs. Pros also know that the hotshot college player may crash and burn in the pros. We see it happen all the time. I doubt there is anything factual to back up your statements here.

6. Game experience is important sure. What does that have to do with running up scores? Game experience doesn't mean you HAVE to throw that fourth quarter bomb when you are up by 40.

7. You know, what REALLY impresses alumni is consistant winning. Period. If you win the national championship every year by winning each game by one point, the alumni will be happy. Trust me.

As far as babbling, go back and please re-read the last three paragraphs from your previous post. Sorry dude, but that sure looks like babble to me. Looks like a bunch of incoherent discourse that seems to come out of nowhere. I might expect that out of a fan on gameday after a couple of six packs, but come on arclite, you can do better than that, and you know it. I don't think you are having trouble thinking for yourself, I just think you are having trouble thinking clearly.

I would be interested to hear what you think Duke has done wrong, becuase I honestly think coach K runs an extremely clean and successful program at a university that wouldn't even admit most college players. Spit out whatever was so unpalatable, and lets talk about it. And don't worry about being off topic. LOL! When has that ever stopped off topic comments on all the other threads?”

“Dang, the football thread is hotter than the gun thread!”

“That's right! And we aren't even drunk yet!”

“The debate rolls on. Answers:

1. Most certainly I dispute that statement. If you can score, you do. It's that simple. Why would you stop running your offense?

2. If your offense is good, it will score points. What do you want? A vast array of three yards and a cloud of dust? You have to have balance. Everyone thinks of Florida as a passing team, but it's a balanced attack that makes our offense go.

3-5. You may doubt it, BobK, but it's a fact of life. Good stats equal better bargaining power. You telling me that the Heisman, Thorpe, Butkis, and Outland trophies don't equal more money for a player?

6. You can't give your second and third string quarterbacks and receivers experience when all you do is run. How do you expect to give your second and third string linemen pass blocking experience if all you do is run?

7. You are right there, BobK. It was a weak point. Although scoring points is exciting to the Alumni. Three yards and a cloud of dust is not. At least not here.

It wasn't babble, BobK, merely illogical ideas. Much like I find in yours and other folks arguments. If this were a debate, you'd be on the short end my friend.

Yeah, off topic (for short bits) is OK by me ;-). I think Duke is an excellent program that is run very cleanly. Much like Florida's.

Football season gives me the opportunity to indulge my more obnoxious character traits, like stirring up the pot just a wee bit. It brings out the Blue Devil in me.”

“Hey, if stats are so all-fired important, why isn't the Heisman winner the greatest pro? There are many players who post fantastic stats in college who don't last in the pros.”

“My point exactly, Dunadan.

For me the bottom line is, play the best that you can, but don't ridicule your opponent in the process. Like dayhiker says, show some class. Florida, both players and coach, seem to have a bit of a problem in this regard. Spurrier makes snide comments about the team he has crushed, and his players taunt the other team on the field. Arclite says its all character assasination by the sports writers, but I have a hard time believing the media and fan perceptions are that far off base. Perhaps they are, but I seriously doubt it.

But what the hell, that's southern football for you! The UF fans love it, so don't look for spurrier to change any time soon. He really shouldn't kick a recruit's dog, though. That is really low!”

“You guys make no point. In fact, you corroborate my point. Stats open doors and increase bargaining. Doug Flute wouldn't even have got a shot at the pros if it weren't for his Heisman. Why did you guys shoot for straight A's in school if stats don't count? Facts is facts. People with good stats get better starts. What they do after that is another story. You boys are in denial.

OK BobK, can you now make an argument instead of prattling? You have not made one solid point backed by facts. "Play the best you can"... just don't score points. Quotes from Florida players? I remember that Auburn did the taunting when we played. Any logical points at all, instead of the mindlessly emotional drivel you've been spouting, would be a blessing.”

“Let it go, arc. Being an obnoxious troll who tosses out personal insults doesn't improve your tenuous arguement one bit.”

“You've made your point, BobK. That you have absolutely nothing logical to say on the subject. It's gone.”

“Hmmmm... continuing to taunt. Yes, arc is definitely a Florida fan (he takes after his team). ;-)”

“Saturday's picks:

Washington(H) getting 1 from Wash. St.

South Carolina(H) giving 5 to Clemson.

Florida(H) giving 15 to Fla. St.


I'm also considering:
Maryland giving 3 to N.C. St.(H)
Georgia Tech giving 8 to Wake Forest(H)
Oklahoma giving 8 to Texas Tech(H)
Arkansas St.(H) giving 6 to La. Monroe


Any comments or suggestions from fans who know more about these teams than I?”

“Hey, Arc, how is everything in the sunshine state?
Doug Flutie, as I recall, spent some time, (how many years?), in the Canadian Football League before going to the NFL. I guess the stats didn't work for him, huh?
I would agree with your picks. The game that could be the shocker is Texas Tech vs OK. Kingsbury is averaging over 300 yards per game. The dude can pass the ball.”

“The alarm goes off at 6 AM. Ya have to get up early if ya want to beat the traffic. Everyone is in the car and ready to go by 8. You fight traffic all the way down to the stadium and all the cars have those little flags waving the schools colors and you are instantly in a state of unity. You finally get down to the parking lot and you find your friends are already there and they have the table set up. Man there is so much to choose from! Sloppy Joes, at least five different things in BBQ sauce, every kind of great salad there is to be had, crock pots steaming with all kinds of goodies, and then you see it?the cooler! That?s right, it?s one of the few times in a year when drinking in the morning is acceptable and we ARE going to partake! Just a few so you don?t have to leave the game to pee. After you are done eating your fill everyone stands around stomping their feet and cup their hot chocolate or coffee to keep their hands warm.

Just before everyone heads off to the stadium to find their seats early you grab a handful of candybars for the game. As you walk to the stadium there is a sea of colors?your teams colors. Interspersed are colors from the visiting rivals and we chat and joke with them for the walk over. It seams to take forever to get through the ticket line but finally your in. As you walk through the tunnel the entire expanse of the stadium opens before you and it takes your breath away. 106,000 other people who all have at least one thing in common?football! As the opening ceremonies begin the hair on the back of your neck stands up and you get that familiar lump in your throat as you and every single person sings our national anthem.

There is no sound quite like the roar of 100,000 people as the opening kick off sails through the air. Singing the school fight song when your team scores another touch down. Equally sweet is singing, ?Nananana, nananana, hey, hey, good bye!?, as the visiting fans are getting up and leaving in the 3 rd quarter because the win is out of reach for them yet again. The two armchair coaches behind you who pick every play apart are drowned out by your cheers until your throat is raw. The great walk back to the car as everyone sings the fight song again and again and knowing we are going to eat again as we let the traffic thin out before heading home for a well deserved nap.

This, my friends, is what college football is all about for me. For this one day the BCS doesn?t count. The rankings can go to hell. It?s about our team vs. your team. Winning and tradition.

Good times indeed!”

“How can you say that stats didn't work for Flute, Dunadan? How many other midgets do you know who got a chance to play professional quaterback. Let me explain it one more time for the hard of hearing, " Doug Flute wouldn't even have got a shot at the pros if it weren't for his Heisman." That was my quote. It may be difficult for you to understand because it's written in English not Kansastani!

Nigal, I live in Gainesville. The atmosphere on game weekends is incredible. The RV's start rolling into the parking lots on Friday, the TailGatoring lasts all weekend, and the comradery is beautiful. The stadium is right on campus. People set up awnings everywhere. It's almost a Fourth of July type of atmosphere, very family oriented. Flags, cheers, and songs. Be sure to pay attention to a great Florida tradition during Saturday's game. At the end of the third quarter, evryone in the stadium puts their arms over the shoulders of the persons next to them, the crowd sways in unison as we sing, We are the Boys of Old Florida. Back in the day, Florida was a boys school and Florida State was a girls school. Some things never change.

At Auburn, they all get drunk, dress in their Farmer Brown overalls, and roll in cow manure before the game. What a great tradition!

Good times, I agree!”

“Hey, did you guys hear where they suspended 15 Auburn students for going to a Halloween party dressed in Klan outfits with blackface?

Their football coach probably put them up to it. Class act, those Auburn folk. Some traditions die hard.”

“Yeah, I heard about the Auburn black-face travesty. Those boys could surely think of another way to get a laugh, couldn't they? I mean, after all they are suposed to be getting an education.
Let's see...Flutie got the Heisman and no NFL team drafted him out of college. I think you are missing something, Arc. I like the "Kansastan", though. That could catch on with the folks in these parts.
Good luck to everybody and their team this weekend.
Nigal, I agree about the gameday experience. That is why I still go to the games even when our team is doing so poorly. Unlike Arc, you have to be a fan in good times and bad.
(nudge, nudge, wink, wink)”

“Tennessee should drop another position or two in the BCS between now and Dec 1 by playing KY and Vandy. However, the BCS standing will be moot if they can't get by FL. Arc, I am liking our chances more each week. BobK, being from Lower Alabama, I have had the opportunity to be in Auburn for the Iron Bowl a few times. I have never attended a game where the atmosphere is the same as in Auburn during this weekend. When the game is upstate, it does not seem to carry the same festive spirit that surrounds Auburn (the town, not necessarily the team).”

“arc, the RV's show up on Friday? As Florida is new to the college fb elite, yall still have a thing or two to learn. At Bama, and probably at Auburn, the RV's start showing up on Tuesday or Wednesday. By Thursday evening it's hard for students to park to get to class. By Friday at lunch ALL large parking lots are officically closed to students. The week of the biggest rivalry in college football the RV's start showing up at the end of the previous weeks game. I'm sure BobK will back me up on all of this.”

“A wink's as good as a nod to a blind man, Dun. Thanks for Kingsbury the info.

Good luck everyone!


Final pick decisions:

Washington(H) getting 1 from Wash. St.

Florida(H) giving 15 to Fla. St. (Lots of praying on this one)

Arkansas St.(H) giving 6 to La. Monroe”

“Bama/Auburn RV = Old scool bus painted red and white/blue and white. Higher end models will be equiped with a plywood platform on top for double duty at the race track. All models come standard with a spare tire cover that says, "If this RV's a rockin' don't come a knockin'!".”

“Most of the RV's you see on the campus at Bama are in the $200k+ price range. You can stereotype Southerners all you want, my guess is you couldn't buy one.”

“It's a joke dude. We have them here in Ohio too. the school bus RV is universal. 8)”

“Sorry, I was a little too quick on the draw. If a good ole Southern boy had said it I wouldn't have thought anything of it. I guess that makes me guilty of the same regional profiling that I'm accusing you of.”

“yo-yo defense. (you'll get it)”

“yo-yo defense. (you'll get it)”

“yo-yo defense. (you'll get it)”

“yo-yo defense. (you'll get it)”

“yo-yo defense. (you'll get it)”

“Sweep.. sweep.... sweep those boring FAVORITE threads out of the way..”

“Go Hawks!”

“Arclite, you may end up being sorry for putting money on the Huskies this weekend. I think the Cougs may be for real and this is a heated cross-state rivalry game. The Huskies are banged up and still licking their wounds from the Beaver licking they got last week (hey, that don't sound so bad!)

Then the Montlake Mutts get to go get spanked by Miami. It all looked so doable a couple weeks ago!”

“Conversation overheard at the OSU coaches meeting...
Assistant: What the hell are we going to do about Bellsary?

Head Coach: I don't know. We gotta do something. We have to play Michigan in two weeks. Maybe we can have a family member killed so he has to go home for a funeral?

Assistant: Nope, too messy and it could come back on us.

Head Coach: Maybe we could set him up with the dean's daughter and have claim date rape?

Assistant: Nope. The dean only has two sons. Think he'd go for that? Damn! What are we gonna do?

Head Coach: I know! Let's get him all liquored up and then call the cops and tell them where he's gonna be driving!

Assistant: That's it! We're saved!”

“Sorry, Bellisary, you have been busted! Now, if you played for Nebraska, we could make those nasty DUI's disappear and you would be playing on Saturday. You just picked the wrong school, son.”