The College Football thread

“Might I suggest that OU choked?”

“I will gladly take 13-0 over 12-1 with an ass pounding to end the year. That one may hurt more than OU's feelings. I think it could do some permanent damage to thier program.

If Auburn played like they did the other night and USC played like they did last night, I don't think it would have been very close. However, I feel like AU is a better team than OU, definitely on defense. Also, AU made the plays when they needed to all year. I have no reason to think they wouldn't have done the same against USC.”

“I would like to see USC take on either Iowa or Texas Tech.”

“Matt is so cute!
”

“Ok, I am a girl afterall...”

“cocoa,
Well if you look how Virginia Tech performed in the their game with SC, it would be easy to surmise that Auburn would have been a good matchup and probably would have given SC a run for their money, had they been in the Orange Bowl. I personally wouldn't have minded playing Auburn instead.”

“I’m back after a wonderful trip to the north Georgia mountains. Oh yeah, we also wasted excellent seats watching some inept team lose to the Miami Hurricanes.


Congratulations to USC, and their fans, pixie. They were the best team I watched all year, and they certainly delivered against the Sooners. It’s scary to think they’ll have so much talent back next year.



How come nobody has said anything about USC HUMILIATING Oklahoma? That game was a clear case of running up the score. Where’s the outrage? Where’s the moral indignation?…

…Oh yeah, I forgot, Steve Spurrier wasn’t coaching USC.

Folks really should be consistent with that stupid, “running up the score” to humiliate an opponent, argument.






Was nobody else keeping score? Watch my back dayhiker:

Dunadan- 196
Arclite- 202
Cocoa- 206
JO- 217
Dayhiker- 227
Chili- 280



And our new football god-

ARKY- 292


Congratulations, Arky. Dang it’s a good thing you and JO didn’t pick all of the bowls. It’s already humiliating that you ran up the score on me, but it really could have got ugly for everyone else but chili.”

“I don't think I'd call what USC running up the score. They couldn't help but score. They weren't really preventing it and I was surprised the QB was in as long as he was, but that was just an old fashioned wood shed beating, plain and simple.

Arky kicked our butt. Does this mean we have to haul in pork on the Smokies Football trip.”

“My favorite part of the Orange Bowl was watching that no talent ass-clown Ashlee Simpson get booed off the stage. The stunned look of terror as she realized "they hate me, they really hate me!" was priceless. Halftimes are just bathroom breaks to me but this one was entertaining, in a perverse way.

The top half of the Big XII looked SLOW against their competition in bowls.

With all due props to USC.....In the words of CFN's Pete Fiutak, saying the Pac 10 is a great conference is "like saying Taco Bell is awesome because the grilled stuft burrito rules."

Go Vols! I'm guessing the prognosticators will choose the Vols or Florida to win the SEC in '05”

“Barnhardt has already picked Florida in 1st and yall in 2nd.

The taco analogy is hilarious.”

“"I don't think I'd call what USC running up the score. They couldn't help but score."

Dayhiker



Bwaaaahahahaha! Of course you don't think they were running up the score, Day. The announcers and sports writers didn't tell anyone to think that way.

Please tell us what statistical formula you use to determine when a team is running up the score. Does your formula include having the Heisman quarterback staying in until the end? Does it factor in the all-American running back staying in until the end? What about any first team players staying in until the end? Do you take into account that a passing team may still be passing at the end of the game? Please, do tell. Inquiring minds want to know.

When Spurrier’s (third) teams couldn't help but score on teams such as Alabama, folks such as you were morally incensed about “running up the score”. Isn’t it funny that it isn’t running up the score when it happens to someone else? And it definitely isn’t “running up the score” until the sports pundits say so.

The score was 35-7 at the half. USC went on to score 20 more points when the game was already well in hand. The Orange Bowl was as clear a case of “running up the score” as were any of more than 50 games this year.

There seems to be only two factors that are consistent with the “running up the score” is morally reprehensible crowd: 1. It happens to your team. 2. When the sports pundits tell you to be incensed it triggers your moral indignation.

I don’t believe there is any consistency to the formula for moral indignation over “running up the score”. I have heard nothing logical that contradicts that “running up the score” to humiliate an opponent is a poor argument that is based solely on anger and resentment.”

“I watched the game with friends in a crowded restaurant. I didn't even hear the game.

arc - do you really have to continue to beat this dead horse? If folks disagree and leave it alone do you really have to bring it back up? I suspect you've had too many people walk away from this conversation in real life so you're going to bring it up here since we can't actually walk away, though we can decline to debate it.

I know, if you don't agree with me on the next topic I'll continue to bring it up over the next 3 years until you throw me a bone and somewhat agree just to make me shut up. Pretty good strategy.”

“Dayhiker,
No pork. We only eat "Bevo" beef here in the Natural State.

Arclite,
I picked 28 games. Which one did I miss? I'm not smart enough to find it.

Cocoa,
Congrats to AU on a great season. It may be my SEC bias but I really believe AU would have beaten USC. You guys actually have db's.

Chili,
Call me next year & I'll help you with your picks.

Dunadan,
You are our rock. Way to come thru again.

To everyone,
All gifts to the new Football God will be accepted & are tax deductible.”

“Too funny on the dunny comment.

Gift will be paid on top of a mtn in the Smokies this fall. Will gifts of beer be acceptable?”

“Barnhardt has already picked Florida in 1st and yall in 2nd.
dayhiker

Excellent!! UT seems to always play like crap unless were the underdog or offended. I am really surprised though by Barnhardt's prediction. I know Urban is on the way but question if their problems are directly related with the former coaching staff.”

“Beer is acceptable. Although I prefer Guinness free beer is still the best.”

“BArnhardts predictions were identical to last year with only one change. I think UGA and maybe Florida changed places, don't recall now.”

“Barnhardt:

East:
1. Florida
2. Tennessee
3. Georgia
4. South Carolina
5. Kentucky
6. Vanderbilt

West:
1. LSU
2. Auburn
3. Arkansas
4. Alabama
5. Ole Miss
6. Miss. State”

“I hope more of 'em pick Florida....just more motivation for UT. If I had some underdog/no respect potion to put in the ventilation system of the Vols locker room, I'd do it before every game.
last edited: 1/06/05 2:24:33 PM”

“Re: Running up the score. I don't think anyone cares what they run up against OU. Get'em while you can.”

“What is this "running up of the score." I think teams go out to play their best. If they happen to score a lot, so be it.”

“Well seeing as how I represented a gang when I practiced law and seeing as how I finished a close second for the title of football diety.....





just call me "Vice Lord" from here on out.















Oh, and for the Bama and Gator guys, that would be "Mr. Vice Lord"”

“I agree, pixie. Any sane person understands that scoring lots of points almost always has nothing to do with trying to humiliate your opponent or showing poor sportsmanship. Dayhiker and his ilk don't have a case. So they act all pouty and indignant while refusing to defend their absurdly illogical position. Whack...thump...whack...thump...



Today, our local sports writer chose a subject that is a far more interesting subject than the sick emotional viewpoint of folks who believe that scoring lots of points means you are trying to humiliate your opponent and showing poor sportsmanship:



Understanding latest reform not academic
January 12. 2005 6:01AM


These are the adjectives attached by headline writers to the NCAA's new academic reform legislation that was passed Monday — landmark and sweeping.

They forgot confusing.

And grandstanding.

Because while these reforms make sense in theory, reality brings more questions than answers.

What the NCAA board of directors decided was to come up with penalties if a sports team’s Academic Progress Rate (APR) falls below 925.

There's only one problem.

What's 925? Is it a bowling score, a slugging percentage, the cumulative weight of a college gymnastics team? Or better yet, 925 of what? A thousand? Ten thousand? And can you get discounts at movies with an APR card?

These are questions for which we don't have answers because in its hurry to send out a message of academic integrity in a booming voice, the NCAA muckety-mucks forgot to tell the schools exactly what they were doing.

Oops.

Each member institution was required to send in information concerning their student-athletes at the beginning of last fall following a formula set up by the NCAA. In November, each school would get a report on which sports fell below the cut line for the 2003-04 school year so they could work on repairing any problems before the legislation is implemented for the 2005-06 school year.

At least that was the plan.

“We never got it,” said Jamie McCloskey, Florida's director of compliance. “We're still waiting for it. I don't know what the 925 means. I can make assumptions, but only they have the numbers. They know what 925 means. We're still waiting.”

It will be several weeks before McCloskey and other compliance directors — as well as athletic directors and coaches — around the country find out exactly what is going on with these sweeping, landmark, confusing, grandstanding reforms.

I say grandstanding because it is clear NCAA director Myles Brand was going to get these reforms through at this meeting no matter how far behind his staff was in calculating which teams at which schools fall below the 925 benchmark.

And because while Brand can say that academic integrity is going to be the centerpiece of his tenure at the NCAA, his plan is leaking hypocrisy.

He can talk about academics all he wants, but coaches are still going to be hired and fired based on W's and L's, not A's and B's. Ask Ty Willingham.

And how can you really take a point away from a team's APR score because a player on that team signs a professional contract? Basically, what you are telling college coaches is to not develop a player too much. Don't allow him to be too successful. God forbid he should be set for life.

“I'm going to get penalized because Christian Drejer signed for a million dollars to play in Europe?” Florida basketball coach Billy Donovan said.

And then there is baseball, where the best players almost always sign after their junior years.

“Baseball needs to be examined differently because of the junior signs,” UF coach Pat McMahon said. “There are some strong concerns there.”

There is also the issue of transfers. A player who leaves a school because he isn't getting enough minutes or innings or downs will count against that school's retention rate.

There are also problems with the penalty of up to 10 percent of a team's scholarships. OK, so football could lose up to nine players. I'm guessing a team can survive with 76 players. But in baseball, 10 percent of 11.7 means six or seven players getting partial aid. All sports are not the same. The NCAA, which has hamstrung sports like baseball, men's golf and men's tennis with its scholarship restrictions, should know this better than anyone.

But this is the new NCAA world order. Schools will be scrambling with extra paperwork. Recruiting will be even more difficult for coaches. And athletes will know this — that as long as they are in good standing academically, there won't be a lot they can do that will get them kicked off a team.

You can't afford to lose the retention point.

You can't fall below 925.

Just think how complicated it will be once the NCAA let's us know what that means.

You can reach sports columnist Pat Dooley by e-mail at dooleyp@gvillesun.com or by calling 374-5053. You can hear The Pat Dooley Hour each weekday from 11 a.m. to noon on The Star 99.5-FM.”

“When was the last time the NCAA did anything sensible or intelligent? You can't improve or control something which you can't measure. However, measurements always start with a definition of your goals and of how you will use what you can determine or measure to make progress. You can't set a random target on an undefined measurement and claim you have any clue about what you are doing. But, I forget, that the NCAA is pretty much the dictionary definition of clueless......”

“Hi ya arc1 Where ya been man?

I think it's sad when NCAA football is more about the money than the NFL.”

“I just hate it when arc wakes up and smokes a joint before signing on to TT.”

“Busy, Nigal. Good lord I’ve been busy. We also took a little vacation the foothills of Georgia and recharged the batteries.

Yeah, I stopped watching pro sports years ago because it became all about the money. And I mean ridiculous sums of money. Hey it’s a free market (unless Hillary gets elected) so they’re entitled to it. I just won’t support it by watching their product or their commercials. I don’t buy their merchandise and if I know who is running the commercials, I make an effort not to buy their products as well. It doesn’t get any more democratic than a free market. Current US society has just decided that sports and movie entertainers are some of its most valuable members. I'm not buying into it.

Our bowl tickets would have been $85 per ticket. My friend has corporate connections and got them for us. I don’t like the idea of corporations buying up blocks of tickets at inflated prices. It gets very expensive for your average Joe to take his kids to see a lot of pro sporting events, now it’s infecting college. Tickets to a Florida Gators home game run $20 per ticket. That’s inexpensive by today’s standards.





I gave up joints years ago chili. You should know that. You supply me with all that good crack!




Pedxing started a discussion here, on this issue, a year or two ago (it seems). There was public discussion in the papers at the time. Ped referred to stats about graduation rates. We also had a number of articles on the subject in our local papers. UF has one of the highest graduation rates in the country if you don’t count early NFL defections and transfers. It had a poor record in the stats that Ped referred to because they didn’t take those factors into account.

It doesn’t seem like the NCAA has changed its position despite good evidence for a reexamination of the issues. So they’re going to punish the schools for having players good enough to defect early to the NFL? They’re going to punish the schools for having players who are dissatisfied with their playing time and decide to transfer? They’re going to punish the schools for having players who have personal problems (like a death in the family) and drop out?

This whole thing is confusing and needs clarification. It seems worse than the BCS. This is a persistent problem when bureaucrats get together and try to enforce their ideas on others without doing the research, without asking questions of the people involved, and without fully examining all of the consequences. And you folks wonder why I’m in favor of smaller government?”

“"Yeah, I stopped watching pro sports years ago because it became all about the money. And I mean ridiculous sums of money. Hey it’s a free market (unless Hillary gets elected) so they’re entitled to it."

IMHO the money’s worse in the NCAA than in the NFL. For the simple fact that money doesn’t effect how the sport is done as much in the NFL. The only effect I can think of in the NFL is TV time outs. In the NCAA though the cash determines who will play who and in what bowl as well as it impedes any hope of every having affair play off system.”

“$20 a ticket?!?? That's cheap! SC tickets are $50-$60 face value for a home game. But then we do get to drink booze in the Colliseum.”

“Well, pixie, I guess booze explains that monotonous band music they keep playing over and over and over...



Money effects EVERYTHING about pro sports. The Florida Marlins were mediocre for years. They bought a team, won the World Series, sold off the team, and went back to mediocrity. That was as clear an example of buying a championship as there ever was. The Yankees have bought teams for years.

And then there’s the fact that the teams from the big markets (such as New York and LA) generate much more revenue and can afford better facilities, managers, players, … Free agency, and how you manage salary caps, are a huge strategic part of pro sports.

I don’t think cash impedes a playoff system. I don’t understand all of the issues with that. I mean, the bowls get most of their money through TV revenue. If there were a playoff system you could still have a bowl system and the playoffs as well. With all due respect to all of the fine bowls out there, I would think that the networks would have higher viewer ratings for the first round of a playoff than they would for the Las Vegas Bowl, the Motor City Bowl, the Continental Tire Bowl, the Independence Bowl, …

I think playoffs would bring more recognition for the weaker leagues like the big ten. More viewers would translate to more cash for the schools. The leagues could continue revenue sharing (at least the SEC has revenue sharing).

I haven’t done an investigation into where the money flows or what are all the reasons for resisting the inevitable. We eventually WILL have a playoff system. I do know that some knuckle-dragging coaches are resisting a playoff. But when you have a 16 team 1AA playoff (where the academic requirements are at least as strict in most cases) the argument against extra games doesn’t hold water.

The first step is that all the conferences must institute their own league playoffs. We already know for certain that the foot-dragging of a couple of conferences is holding back a playoff system.”

“Good points arc. I still won't take the NCAA rankings and post season serious until they do have a play off system though.”

“I was listening to a popular talk show host the other day mention after attending a meeting with those in authority over the BCS system that we still would be lucky to see a NCAA D-1 playoff in our life time. In fact, if worse comes to worse the NCAA will return to the old bowl conference matchup system.”

“The Cat Lover and Malone are staying for another year. Watch out other teams, the Trojans are coming to dominate a third straight year!

Matt Leinart rocks!!!!!!”

“Auburn 2004 NC Parade:

”

“LOL! Too funny.

So is everyone excited about recruiting?


Rank with average stars of players 1-5.
1 Oklahoma 3.67
2 Tennessee 3.70
3 Nebraska 3.08
4 Texas A&M 3.25
5 Iowa 3.29
6 Michigan 3.37
7 Ohio State 3.67
8 Georgia 3.50
9 Arizona 3.18
10 Virginia 3.09
11 Virginia Tech 3.28
12 Texas 3.57
13 Miami-FL 3.75
14 Alabama 3.00
15 Clemson 3.00
16 Auburn 3.40”

“I'm pretty excited. Shula seems to be doing a great job under the circumstances we are in. We are really filling in the gaps where depth is the worst. 2 more years of this and we should be doing much better.

Too bad UT feels like they have to recruit during the NCAA imposed quiet periods.”

“Yeah, Phat Phil is doing well again this year. If we sign all our commits we should finish #1. As of now we have 11 commits out of the top 100. My question is how does rivals.com team rank other than using stars. For example, how is Nebraska #3 with 3.08 average stars? My only guess is team position needs.”

“I think it's a combination of stars and quantity. If you look early in the year you'll see teams with 2's and 3's ahead because they have 15 commitments, while USC will have (3) 5 star guys and be right behind them. This stuff usually doesn't shake out until late Feb, but it's fun to watch and keep up with.”

“dayhiker, work on your "width" dude!”

“I just used the image feature on this board.”

“Is this width better?”

“gRrrr... I'm so ticked at the colts for not beating the Pats this past weekend.”

“much better. Thanks!”

“Hey TownDog, old Manning's gonna need the gag reflexes of a porn star if he's ever going to the Pats in the play offs.”

“For you Mississippi State fans: http://leenks.com/redirect.php?lid=6934”

“When I get home I'll get you a picture of the Parade at the end at toomer Corner instead of at the very beginning. It's a little more impressive ;)”

“sheesh. Plenty o that wearing crimson to go around as well. Don't make me start taking my camera when I go to walmart ;)”

“Ouch, a camera at Wal-Mart on a Saturday night would not be a pretty sight.”