The College Football thread

“Michigan fans should NOT expect any sympathy from this Penn State fan. It's just a damn shame both teams couldn't lose!”

“You're a Penn State fan? Huh. I had always held them in the highest regard...some of the classiest fans I've ever rubbed elbows with.”

“Mmmm peppermint mocha sounds yummy!
Dad wanted to go to Home Depot later but I begged him to go during half time so I wouldn't miss too much of the game. As it was, I had to listen to versus watch most of the game as we were busy ripping out my bathroom floor.

Geo - I don't believe any Mich fans were looking for sympathy. Sure, losing to OSU stinks. But, it's primarily cause it means BB's gonna rub it in for the next 12 months. But, we're certainly not unhappy about the way the season has turned out... ROSE BOWL!”

“Thanks Bowlderman. Nice call, although it took a while for Cal to get warmed up. I saw some ugly scuffles during that game. It looked like Stanford was a little frustrated.




Something surprises me greatly about many college football fans. I don’t hear folks from areas outside of these rivalries talking about them much:

Cal/Stanford, South Carolina/Clemson (well I guess we all heard about that game), Michigan/Ohio St., Alabama/Auburn, Florida/Florida State (a game that has had many years of national title implications), USC/UCLA, Oregon/Oregon St., Oklahoma/Texas…

Sounds like a pixie phenomenon to me. Let’s hope that folks know more about college football than just their team and league. Let’s hope that folks know more about national college football than is often talked about. That little yearly TT contest is coming up soon.




Yo pixie, we know that USC’s national claim to fame is for being named after a prophylactic. What is that sports drink that traditionally gets poured over the heads of winning coaches in nationally important college and NFL games? How did it get its name?”

“Arc - there was some dirty play going on on both sides of the ball. There have been a few games in the past when dirty stuff happened, but it was only coming from the Cal guys (the '91 game especially). This time the Stanford guys were doing it too. The worst stuff happened, though, after Cal's coach decided to try the run up the score in the 4th quarter, something I had never seen tried by either team in the 25 previous "Big Games" I attended. Not long after Cal did a pitch to the tailback who then passed for a TD, a Stanford guy plastered a Cal guy who was waiting to catch a punt. It was a shame, because at that point, Stanford's defense was gassed, and Cal could have just kept handing the ball off and still would have scored their final 2 TDs, and most of the bad feelings could have been avoided.
last edited: 11/24/04 3:22:32 PM”

“Very important question here:

There was a game recently in which there was a "1 point safety" recorded. One of the coaches was even quoted as saying he was a little embarrassed that he didn't know that was possible. Well, neither did I. Does anyone know how this is possible? The wire service reports did not elaborate, other than to point out it was a rare occurrence.”

“i never heard of it before. Sounds like someone mucked up.”

“Here's the story - scroll down a ways:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap?gid=200411260083”

“I saw that game. The announcers were saying they'd never heard of it. Coach fRan of A&M appeared to not challenge the rule. He may be an SOB, but knows the game. By the end of the game ABC had rounded up the rule and presented it on TV. They said that at the half they were able to talk to the ref and he'd called it one other time in his 30+ years of officiating. Now there's a ref that knows the rules.”

“OK, we're getting close to 8 hours and no answer to the question. This has to be a record for TTers....”

“BTW, we're (Stanford) looking for a new coach this morning. Any ideas?”

“Give Spurrier a call, maybe you could buy him from South Carolina.”

“I thought the season was over?

I've never heard of that either but google tells me that its known as the initial impetus rule: Rule 8, Section 3, Article 2”

“Roam, we tried the "Florida guy" thing for 3 years. Didn't work. Next idea, please?”

“OK, I read the rules. It looks like a safety scored during the attempted point-after would be a 1-pointer. The article about the game didn't seem too clear that that's when the play occurred.”

“Heck, I saw the play when it happened. Very weird. Yes, the play happened on a point after. My memory is that the hold was muffed and the kicker kicked the ball while it was laying sideways on the ground. I don't think it hit the goal post and just spun around into the endzone where a Texas player jumped on it.”

“Bowlder, ya can't expect quick answers when we're digesting turkey.

Didn't read the rule (actually I didn't bother to scroll through the adobe pages that came up from violin's link).

It was my understanding that a one-point play was possible if the defending team took a blocked extra point all the way down to their own goal. What is that, 97 yards for a point? Seems like an awfully long way to go for one point.

I’ve never been clear on that rule.


Yes there were some ugly plays on both sides during Cal/Stanford. It just surprised me that Stanford had a part to play in any of them. I’ve always considered Stanford to be a pretty classy team. Well certainly nobody’s perfect. It got so bad that the refs called an unsportsmanlike on the Stanford defensive end who creamed the Cal offensive tackle after he moved. It was a legit play (as the sportscasters said) but the refs were trying to keep ugly to a minimum at that point.

Running up the score has never been an excuse for resentment or anger in my book. We’ve been on both sides of it and I’ll always think it’s stupid to get angry about that sort of thing. We were leading FSU by 28 points in the fourth quarter when they mounted an incredible comeback and tied us. I will NEVER criticize a team for running up the score. But I will always point out that it is hypocritical to complain about some teams scoring lots of points while Nebraska and Oklahoma have been doing it to patsies for years while not creating a national crisis.




Is everyone (those who actually know something about college football) eagerly awaiting some bowl picks?”

“We had two injured players in last years game with Stanford as a result of their roughness.”

“You’d think a certifiable super genius could figure out how to use the table of contents feature in Acrobat.”

“Re: running up the score:

Citing a time when some team made some incredible comeback is irrelevant to this year's Stanford-Cal game, unlike in some years when Stanford had at least a potentially explosive offense. Stanford had shown for the entire 2nd half of the season that they were barely able to score a single TD in a game, much less score 3 or 4 in the final 12 minutes of a game.

I haven't watched a lot of Nebraska or Oklahoma football, but my understanding is that those teams will sometimes have their 3rd string guys in there and will call very basic plays, but they're so much better than their opponents, those basic plays turn into more and more points. It's wrong to tell players to play easy. If you're in the game you should play at 100% effort. But if you're crushing someone, there is no need for a coach to call trick plays or long passes to pile on the score.

There were other reasons for the bad feelings, too. On one play, the Cal center did something to deliberately injure the Stanford nose tackle. I've never seen a guy lay on the ground for 5 minutes, then have to be held back from going after an opposing player after being helped up. Later (after the game, apparently), the Cal guy apologized, and the Stanford guy accepted his apology. Additionally, the Cal guys were apparently talking trash the whole time. I'm a pretty mild mannered guy, but if someone was whooping me and talking trash, I'd get pretty ticked off, too. Good sportsmanship would allow the whooping but not the trash talking.

Pix, we've had so many players injured due to roughness over the years, many at the hands of USC, well, I'm not sure what your point is.”

““It's wrong to tell players to play easy. If you're in the game you should play at 100% effort. But if you're crushing someone, there is no need for a coach to call trick plays or long passes to pile on the score.”

Bowlder


I agree with your first statement, Bowlder. I disagree with your second. If my starting quarterback gets injured, I want my backup to know ALL the plays. Feeling sorry for a team that’s loosing because the starting quarterback got injured, and the backup has no experience with trick plays, is ridiculous. They may need those trick plays because the backup is not as good as the starter.

And how can I accurately evaluate my third string receivers with my third string quarterback? That’s ridiculous assumption. I’d give my receivers every chance I can to practice in a game situation because the starters may get injured.

Should I have my third string line in there so that my quarterback can get beat up? That’s ridiculous.


Many people talk about sportsmanship but don’t apply the principles. Sportsmanship is not only about winning gracefully; it’s about loosing gracefully.

I have played many team and individual sports. There have been times when we/I got creamed. I would never want an opponent to play anything but their best against me. It doesn’t do anything for sportsmanship to have a competitor let up because they feel sorry for an opponent. The only exception I would make to that would be in a sport like boxing, where you could do serious and lasting damage to someone.

We were NJ State 3A champs during my junior year of high school. We were so much better than everyone in our league that our coach got us an extra game against a 4A team from NY. They were bigger and better than we were and they ran up the score. The only ugly thing about that game was how the character of some of our players broke down. Our team started to get mad and argue among ourselves. Some players took cheap shots at the other team. It was one of the poorest displays of sportsmanship I’ve ever seen and, for me, it took away a lot of the enjoyment of playing football.

I was a good athlete and took a course in handball at UF. I was the top ranked player in my class. I continued to play good players and thought I was pretty hot stuff. One day I was playing a friend, who was as good as I was, and a guy stopped to watch us play. We thought he would ask us to play cutthroat (three way). He told us it would be fairer if he played against both of us. My friend and I looked at each other and decided we’d try to slaughter the guy. The first game ended 15-1. We managed to score 2 points against the guy in the second game. It turns out that he was the second ranked player in the State.

My friend and I got a good laugh over that one. I still get a good laugh over that one. In my opinion, it would have been poor sportsmanship for him to take pity on us and to play any less than he was capable. I also would have missed an opportunity to get crushed and to lose gracefully. Anyone who can’t deal with the embarrassment of being beaten badly, hasn’t learned good sportsmanship.”

“arc, the extra point kick was recovered in the endzone. The 97 yard run was a fumble recovery resulting in a TD. Different plays.”

“Good discussion, arc.

In a discussion on this topic on a Stanford football board, a Cal guy posted "I don't care about the other team's emotions, that guy [the second string QB] deserved to get to try to throw a long pass." That's a similar sentiment to yours. My response was that the definition of good sportsmanship is to be aware of and to respect your opponents' emotions. You can try the trick plays, plays with the guys down on the depth chart, etc. in practice - when you're in a game, good sportsmanship demands that you pay attention to what's going on with your own players and your opponent's players. I think what went on in that game is a natural outcome of what I see in youth sports occasionally - total lack of good sportsmanship, win BIG at all costs, complete lack of care about what the game is like for the opponent, etc. It's no wonder we see more fighting in all sports these days....”

“BM - arc feels it's his God given right to run up the score. I quit argueing with him on this issue about 2 years ago. It's funny, actually, considering the current state of Florida football!”

“Notre Dame just fired Ty Willingham. That's kind of weird to me. He seemed to be doing as good a job as anyone could at Notre Dame right now.”

“Betcha Flordia picks him up.”

“Now that's funny! After all the hubbub when he left Stanford - all the Irish fans thought he was so wonderful - and he lasted exactly 1 day longer than his replacement at Stanford. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Here's an interesting bit of trivia. If you exclude head-to-head (Stanford-ND) competition, Ty's record the past 2 years was 9-12; Buddy's was 8-12. And with ND's recruiting advantage??? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!


No! We don't want him back!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
last edited: 11/30/04 2:01:52 PM”

“Unfortunately, I expect Jessie Jackson's response very soon. Out of 5 D1 black coaches, 2 have resigned and 1 has been fired following this season.”

“Well we’ll just have to disagree with what we see as good sportsmanship, Bowlder. I believe that we see so much poor sportsmanship and fighting because of the over sensitivity that you are defending. I believe that many players and fans have a HUGE problem taking playtime entirely too seriously.

I feel cheated when an opponent feels pity for me. I feel cheated when I’m not getting their “best game.” I don’t learn from mediocrity. In sports, I have always learned the most from competing against excellence and dealing with adversity.

I think the world has grown entirely too PC. People are so worried about hurting someone else’s feelings that it’s gone well into the absurd. We’re not talking about trash talk. I think that’s totally classless. We’re not talking about rubbing your opponent’s nose in the fact that you’re better than they are. That’s not good sportsmanship.

My feelings have never been hurt by being totally outplayed by an opponent. Being beaten badly just means I need to work harder if I want to get better. It gives me a measure of where I stand.

I think it is absurd to believe that a team that runs up the score is always trying to humiliate their opponent. I also think it is absurd to be humiliated by being beaten badly. Exactly how overly sensitive do you suppose most people are?

I am not responsible for how another person feels. Those who think that they are responsible for how another person feels are entirely too arrogant for my taste. They have a control problem. If you think you can control my feelings, Bowlder, you are entirely mistaken. I am responsible for my own feelings, not you. The only thing in life that I have total control over are my feelings. People who purposely try to hurt my feelings are sick individuals. And as soon as I realize that, their attempts don’t hurt my feelings.

Realizing these things builds character and is a mark of maturity. Attitude and perception determine our quality of life. If the quality of life were determined by everyone tip-toeing around other people’s feelings, this would be a sorry world.

So try not to take this to the extreme (as some people tend to do) and think that I am saying we should not be empathic and caring about others. What we are talking about here are GAMES. Let’s be real. Exactly how has loosing a game ever scarred someone for life? Someone who is not a basket case that is. I believe that competing against excellence and dealing with adversity, in sporting events, are great character builders for real life.

For many more very practical reasons than I have mentioned, running up the score is perfectly acceptable to me. It appears to me as if too many people try to think with their emotions. It also appears to me as if many of those emotions are unhealthy. If you like experiencing anger, resentment, jealousy, and self-pity then you should probably continue to be upset about teams “running up the score.””

“OK, I think we actually agree on many points, but disagree primarily on the degree to which things happen.

We seem to agree that:
1) Trash talk is classless.
2) Rubbing your opponent's nose in the fact that you're better is poor sportsmanship.
3) People who purposely try to hurt another's feelings are sick individuals.

I think where we disagree is that I believe that sometimes, perhaps often, perhaps always, a team running up the score is doing #'s 2 and 3 above. I gather that you believe that a team running up the score is rarely, if ever, doing #s 2 and 3.

Have we hashed through this topic enough?

Now, let's talk about a new coach for Stanford - whaddya think??”

“WHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!”

“hey blalock..you got tickets to the SEC Championship game

oh wait..Georgia isn't going.....lmao”

“Willingham should have been fired. He was getting paid a lot of money and was not meeting the expectations (wacky though they may be) of the university, it's alumni and fans.

It's unfortunate, because I think he was a good person, classy and a strong ambassador for ND. But, he wasn't getting it done on the field. I think the race thing is overblown...I would feel worse if ND kept him on just because of it.”

“Ewk - cocoa williams got good tickets to the game this weekend. Lucky dog.

Bowlder - I heard Ty mentioned. It just seems that you can never go home again.”

“Nobody wants Willingham back at Stanford. I'd probably join the many thousands of season ticket holders in not renewing if they hired that jerk back. (Yes, he burned a lot of bridges when he left.)

Actually, it looks like Norm Chow, Dan Hawkins, and the guy at Pitt seem to be favorite names being tossed around right now.”

“Chow or Hawkins would be good. If Walt Harris can't get it done at Pitt, what makes them think he can at Stanford. He's about to be fired at Pitt.”

“I don't know anything about Harris and only a little about the other two. Just checked the Stanford board I read and SC people are saying that Chow to Stanford is a done deal and that he will leave SC before the NC game....”

“Butch Davis resigned from the Cleveland Browns..it was mentioned he is heading to Florida
last edited: 12/01/04 8:38:10 AM”

“I think where we disagree is that I believe that sometimes, perhaps often, perhaps always, a team running up the score is doing #'s 2 and 3 above. I gather that you believe that a team running up the score is rarely, if ever, doing #s 2 and 3.

Have we hashed through this topic enough?

Bowlder



I never get enough of this topic because it relates to so many core philosophies in life, and because I’m curious about different perceptions:

Yes Bowlder, I believe in the good intentions of most people. Actions are another matter, but I believe that mentally healthy individuals do not purposefully try to hurt other people. I believe that the majority of people, who are involved with sports on the college level, are mentally healthy enough to understand this concept and to try to put it into action.

You say you disagree with me. What I’m hearing you say is that you believe that “…sometimes…often…always…” “running up the score” is a sign of people wanting to hurt others? You believe that “…sometimes…often…always…” “running up the score” is a sign of sick people?

I hear you saying “…sometimes, perhaps often, perhaps always…” when referring to people intentionally wanting to humiliate others by “running up the score.” Sometimes, often, always? You appear to be hedging your bet with an ambiguous commitment to your beliefs. I see games every year where it can be said that one team is “running up the score.” Here are some games from this year:

1. California, Pa. 63, Mansfield 6
2. Fort Valley St. 57, Morehouse 12
3. Murray St. 56, Glenville St. 3
4. N. Dakota St. 52, Valparaiso 0
5. Miami (Ohio) 49, Indiana St. 0
6. NW Missouri St. 77, Minn.-Moorhead 12
7. W. Carolina 77, W. Virginia St. 7
8. W. Michigan 42, Tenn.-Martin 0
9. Connecticut 52, Murray St. 14
10. Northeastern 71, Cheyney 0
11. Furman 52, Presbyterian 7
12. James Madison 62, Lock Haven 7
13. N.C. State 42, Richmond 0
14. S. Carolina St. 51, Benedict 0
15. Illinois 52, Florida A&M 13
16. UAB 56, Baylor 14
17. Nebraska 56, W. Illinois 17
18. Arkansas 63, New Mexico St. 13
19. Texas 65, North Texas 0
20. Wyoming 53, Appalachian St. 7
21. Boise St. 65, Idaho 7
22. UC Davis 52, S. Dakota St. 0
23. Purdue 51, Syracuse 0

How many more scores do want to see? So far I have only posted scores from the first two weeks of the 2004 season.



According to your perspective, you should have been very upset this year. Keeping in mind that this sort of thing happens every year, in a number of different sports, that’s an awful lot of instances where you appear to believe that people are intentionally trying to humiliate others.


I can easily think of a number of reasons why one team can score a lot of points on another:

1. They are much better than the other team.
2. The coach is padding the stats for his own job security
3. The coach wants to pad player stats so those players will be more attractive to professional teams.
4. The third string deserves to play and not just fill time until the end of the game
5. Injuries are more likely to occur when players aren’t focussed
6. My third string quarterback and receivers need game preparation. What if my starting players are injured and my back ups have no intensive game experience?
7. My third string quarterback and receivers may need to practice trick plays in a game situation. Because they are not as good as my starters and we may need to rely on trick plays if my starters get injured.

You may not agree with these motivations (and I can think of many more), but none of them involve the winning team trying to humiliate their opponent.

I can also easily think of a couple of reasons why discontinuing to play with excellence can be detrimental to the losing team:

1. We’re losing badly. We have a young secondary. They need practice. If the opposing team decides to stop their effective passing game and start running the ball, how does my secondary get the needed practice to face other passing teams that may be just as good if not better? How will they improve for next year?
2. We’re losing badly. The coach wants his players to never stop trying in a game situation. The possibility of trick plays keeps them focused.
3. We’re losing badly. The coach wants to evaluate the defensive backs in a game situation because he wants the best players on the field. If the opposing team decides to stop their effective passing game and start running the ball, how can he evaluate who does the best job of pass defense?

I do not make assumptions about people feeling humiliation or that people are trying to humiliate others. And since I am not the almighty white knight protector of the universally downtrodden, it is not my business to come riding to the rescue of people who have not given me permission to do so. I would try not to get upset if someone who suffers from sever depression got angry with me. Why should I get upset over sick behavior displayed during something as unimportant as a game?

My perception is that the vast majority of people have good intentions. My perception is that they sometimes do not effectively think about all of the consequences when translating their intentions into actions. Your perception appears to be that many people have bad intentions that they effectively translate into actions.

I wonder (and I’m just asking) does this outlook towards humanity effect your political beliefs? I know that my inclination to trust that most people have good intentions effects mine.



Now who woulda thunk I’d be trying to continue a philosophical discussion on a sports thread?






Now, let's talk about a new coach for Stanford - whaddya think??”

You’ve only tried assistant Florida coaches, Bowlder. Stanford is ready to move up to the big time. One word:

RONZOOK!”

“Saturday, Lincoln Financial Field, Army Navy, 'Nuff said!

Is it too soon to hope for an upset? Last year I understood how the Christians felt going to the Colliseum. "Hey, maybe the Lions won't bring their A game! Maybe we'll get a miracle. Maybe the refs will feel sorry for us. Maybe the lions won't be hungry."

For two years the Navy guys have felt sorry for us. When Navy guys won't gloat over a victory, something's just wrong. I'm tired of anchor clanker pity.”

“Did I happen to mention that University of Memphis finished 8-3 and make their second bowl appearance (second consecutive bowl) in 32 years?

For a team that was down so long, it has been exciting seeing the past two teams go 7-4 and 8-3. It is energizing to see so much optimism surround a program.

Hell, UT goes 8-3 or 7-4 and everyones gets a rope and hunts a scapegoat.”

“Zook was mentioned early on (actually, it's still early on, I guess), but there doesn't seem to be much interest. Seems like Chow seems to be the favorite among fans and some semi-insiders (people who know someone who knows someone who knows someone who is affiliated with the Athletic Dept. somehow).

So Geo, does that mean you want Navy to run up the score on you??!! ;-)”

“Yes , I'll be there as every year W/ my team colors on. Hard to beleve the best team from the east was 39 seconds from getting their a$$ kicked by the worst team in the east Sat., not to mention the previous game with Vandy. I just hope that all the Vols fans beat with your head and not with your heart this Sat.”

“Let’s hope for a good game geobeet. There’s nothing worse than some sicko who pities you because he thinks you’re being humiliated by a psychopathic coach and his players.



WE'RE GOING TO THE PEACH BOWL! WE'RE GOING TO THE PEACH BOWL!”

“And now for the continuing adventures of Bowlderman, Dayhiker, and the rest of the KNIGHTS TOUCHDOWN as they defend the holy-land of good sportsmanship:



Coast Guard 62, Mass. Maritime 7
Edinboro 54, WVU Tech 12
Ithaca 45, Buffalo St. 0
Maine 38, N. Colorado 0
RPI 42, Endicott 7
Rhode Island 39, Cent. Connecticut St. 7
Ursinus 39, Catholic 0
West Chester 62, Glenville St. 3
Alabama St. 55, Texas Southern 15
Albany St., Ga. 42, Kentucky St. 7
Delta St. 59, West Alabama 7
Georgetown, Ky. 47, Kentucky Wesleyan 0
Georgia Southern 84, Johnson C. Smith 3
LSU 53, Arkansas St. 3
Mars Hill 63, St. Augustine's 12
Tuskegee 59, Miles 14
Virginia Tech 63, W. Michigan 0
W. Kentucky 58, Concord 0
Findlay 41, N. Michigan 0
Illinois College 50, Lawrence 7
Kansas 63, Toledo 14
N. Dakota St. 56, Montana Tech 3
N. Iowa 40, Minn.-Mankato 0
Pittsburg St. 77, Truman St. 7
Purdue 59, Ball St. 7
Saginaw Valley St. 45, Wayne, Mich. 0
W. Illinois 98, Cheyney 7
Wis.-Oshkosh 67, Concordia, Wis. 20
Oklahoma 63, Houston 13
TCU 44, SMU 0
Carroll 65, Montana St.-Northern 3
Linfield 58, W. Oregon 17
Nevada 59, Sacramento St. 7
Southern Cal 49, Colorado St. 0


Ohhh noooo! As we move into week three of the 2004 season it just seems to be getting worse. We see a pattern, they say, “Purdue and N. Dakota St. have appeared more than once. They are evil and must be shunned. Oklahoma and Nebraska have appeared as usual but we can ignore them as usual. LSU and USC appear to be turning to the dark side. Ohhh woe is us. The entire college football world is turning into a bunch of psychopaths who are bent on humiliating their opponents!!! What shall we do besides get upset and angry over this unsportsmanlike conduct?”


Tune in next week to see how humiliating it can really get as we follow the continuing adventures of (fanfare) THE KNIGHTS TOUCHDOWN.”

“Somehow, I have this great fear that arlite's list will expand after this weekend.

Auburn is desparate to move up to second place. A 55-0 drumming of the "LSU reject" lead Volunteers just might do it.”

“chili, you have to give Clausen some credit. he has done a good job, it is just the defense has totally sucked. If they play like that against Auburn, it will get ugly very, very quick.”

“Ewker, you are correct. He has managed to put up quite a few points against VU and KU. If he can keep the mistakes out of his game and the defense would show up, it could be interesting.

However, AU defense will be a far greater problem that he has faced so far.

If the throws three picks and the defense remains as it has for the past two weeks, things are going to get ugly fast.”

“Here's to "ugly fast"!”

“Of course the flip side of the coin to the game getting ugly is UT managing to put a hurt on Auburn and completely destroy any hopes they may have of a NC.


Wouldn't that be a shame? Hell this may be the first time in history the Bama fans secretly sing Rocky Top.”