Esbit or pocket rocket?

“Yeah, the Sawyer bags are stupid expensive.

You don't use the bottle adapter to fill bottles. You use the bottle adapter to backflush the filter by hooking it up to the outlet and stepping on the bottle. Works like the faucet adapter without the faucet. The adapter doesn't weigh much and you'll have the hoses anyway...”

“So if I use a bigger pot, I will heat more efficiently?
last edited: 6/07/12 12:30:47 PM”

“Gem, if you have an alcohol setup with a separate pot support and windscreen I would suggest trying the esbit on the unside down alcohol burner but with the same pot support and wind screen - I suspect the esbit stove you got is not all that efficient and a typical alcohol setup would work better with the esbit just burning on the upside down alcohol burner.”

“I think alchy stoves were made for the sierra. It's what 90% of the pct thru hikers use. Just sayin'...”

“where do I buy an alchy stove? I seen many setups.. can't figure out what to use. Yes...I am new to this stuff.. .I started out with pepsi can stove, and later on to the pocket rocket. Can't find my pepsi can stove.”

“i guess this one would work:
http://traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-sidewinder

??”

“I just ordered a Caldera Cone used from a WB member. It comes with a Snowpeak 700 ml pot and he even thru in a caldera cone he made that is in sections so it will pit in the pot. I will test it some when it gets here, but here's the deal. I already have a 700 ml backcountry Ti pot so I will actually have two complete set-ups. You are more than welcome to use one for your trip. PM me and we can work out the details.”

“Karo, I send you a Facebook message :)
Sorry, I didn't reply last night, but I went to the local park...”

“That's cool, Gem. Or make your own: http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm

I like the hybrid sideburner jet version as you don't need a stand and they are pressurized. Something like this: http://zenstoves.net/SimplifiedZenStove.htm
These are pretty cool because they are bombproof and you can just buy it. http://www.whiteboxstoves.com/”

“Yeah, still not sure what stove to use. roseymonster, I like them, but I really want o stay away from alcohol. 21 days of alcohol is a lot of liquid.
If I will use 3oz per day...with the next resupply being Tuolumne on the 4th day... 12 oz for 4 days..
next resupply would be Muir Ranch...9 days...27oz... ugh
and then 9 or 10 more days.. compared to esbit at 0.5oz per cube, that's a lot of weight...”

“That is foh sho!”

“I have been using an alcohol stove for awhile on any trip where weight was a premium. It is made from 2 pepsi can bottoms with the 1/4 in hole in the top for filling and 14-32 jets around the rim. Because I have used it in colder temps, I use a primer pan and stand to keep it off the bottom of my pot, which is normally a wide base MSR Ti. one liter pan with lid. Since I got the backcountry 700ml ti pot I knew I needed a smaller stove to keep the flames from all going up the sides of my narrower pot. So I have made a stove from the 8 oz. soda cans and I think with the caldera cone this may be the lightest set-up you could take. Take esbit for the primary fuel and a very small bottle of alcohol as a back-up and to help start the esbit.”

“Its raining... I guess I'll be going downtown to the outfitter and check out stoves.”

“Gem, whatever fuel you decide to use, you can cut down on the weight by only cooking dinner. On my last trip, for breakfast I used instant breakfast mixed with nido and coffee, plus a large oatmeal breakfast cookie thing. The vitamins, hydration and caffeine in the morning got me off to a good start. I thought I would miss the hot coffee, but I really didn't.”

“I'm still voting for the pocket rocket with the small fuel canister.

You could borrow my snow peak titanium solo pot. The stove and canister both fit inside and it isn't that heavy. When I was on the JMT that is the setup I used, The canister should last pretty far and you could just get another in your resupply.”

“Creek dancer... I will die a slow agonizing death without coffee... Lol I don't care about hot cereal or anything else... I see your point tho... And I might end up going without coffee.

Hell no... I don't think that'll happen....


Can't remember for sure, but I think I got about 7 days of cooking with the small fuel canisters. Meaning I would need 3 of them. They could be included in the resupply, so I wouldn't have to carry them all at once.”

“sandyann...I didn't see your post. Right now I am leaning more and more towards canister fuel...”

“Gem...I will be on the trail from 07/08 - 07/14. I am planning on only taking one small canister. I will have a hot breakfast with coffee, soup and a hot meal for dinner. Generally only cooking long enough to bring the water to a boil. I may not be having coffee on the last morning...LOL!”

“Yeah, that's what I remember.. about 7 days per canister. I actually have a stove. I would only need the fuel [jetboil canisters are 0.5oz lighter)

but whatever is available at the store will work. I am sure there is an outfitter near by. [can't remember]”

“Using an alcohol stove is kinda like a religious choice. It doesn't make that much sense but people get really emotional about it.”

“Not to bring this into the debate, or blather on ad nauseum (oops, too late) about this tired old subject, but below is what I find most appealing about alcohol stoves and why they are still my go to stove (not that anyone cares). I say this because I have been analyzing it a lot lately as I get ready to do some summer backpacking with the family and will be carrying pretty much everyone's gear. I've been trying to decide if a super light (<3ozs) cannister stove is what I should move to (and the only type of stove missing from my quiver). They seem super simple as well and would be convenient, especially as I boil more and more water in the coming years for the growing brood. I also like that there's not an open container of flaming hot fuel available to tip over (though boiling water could be just as bad).

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Just thinking out loud here...

Best:

1. Bulletproof
2. Bulletproof
3. Bulletproof
4. Performs in any condition
5. As simple as it gets to operate
6. Super cheap to operate/ubiquitous fuel
7. Pretty light

Here's what I find least appealing:

1. Low BTU per oz fuel output (= greater fuel weight)
2. Suffers at high altitude (>12K ft)
3. Limited control over flame

But that's about it, really. The big drawback for me with the canister stoves is the waste of the canister. I know they have recycling programs and everything. When are they going to get it together and sell refillable 20# isobutane mix canisters that you can use to just refill the smaller canisters yourself? They could still make $ on the 20# cans. Someday mebbe.

I am still on the fence with a dividend burning a hole in my pocket...”

“note - refilling the smaller canisters with _butane_ is something possible and has been done - see http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/01/gas-canister-refilling.html”

“that's not hijacked... it's good info. the canister was the reason why I thought about esbit or alcohol... I still really love the alcohol stove you posted the link to, roseymonster...”

“Gem- " “So if I use a bigger pot, I will heat more efficiently? "


This is a good question I'd like to know the answer to as well. I've always thought a wider pot captured the heat better but the cone kinda changes that thinking maybe. With a cannister and no tight windscreen I think the wider pot would heat more efficiently.

Where's that Hikinjim when you need him?

The decision of which stove to take would depend on what you were eating, from my view. If you're just boiling water, a jetboil might serve you well. Being gone as long as you plan to, I would choose to actually cook, at least some.
I agree with rosey that the empty cannister is a deal breaker for me, usually. I have a trianga cookset that is fit with a primus burner, very efficient, uses alcohol too. But heavy and kinda big. It's still a great piece if your actually cooking. It has wide aluminium pots and a frying pan. Better for two people.

Solo, I like the cone and a one egg wonder pan for frying. As far as which cone is more efficient? I don't know.”

“Ugh, decisions, decisions...
Looks like I have to sit on the balcony and actually cook what I am eating on the JMT. Maybe that'll help me figure out what to take.
Still leaning toward the canister...little worried I am going to run out of fuel tho.”

“More info and discussion about which stove is lighter.http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?76315-Which-alcohol-stove
There is some good info on Sgt. Rock's site and Zen stoves about esbit actually being lighter wieght on this type of a hike without as many resupply options.”

“So? Rock, paper, or scissors?”

“Na, still not sure what to take.”

“on another note, I found VIA starbux for $5.99...so coffee supply...CHECK!!!!”

“Are you actually going to be cooking meals or do you just need to boil water for Freezer bag/store bought deyhdrated meals, and hot water for coffee, etc.???”

“karo, I won't cook any gourmet meals. coffee in the morning... soup for dinner, with some couscous... maybe mashed potatoes on other days. So, I guess it's a LITTLE more involved then just boiling water. starting to lean towards the canister...”

“..that's all boiling water and could be done with a jetboil.. if you commit to a jetboil you can't carry a small fry pan for quickbreads, if you go with the rocket you lose the efficiency.

You have at least one re-supply? Or more?”

“2 resupplies... longest without resupply 10 days. jetboil is way too heavy. I checked them out the other day... ugh... heavy.”

“I saw people using the jetboil and I really liked it and convinced myself I wanted one. I bought one and was really disappointed when I took it out of the package and felt the weight. Returned it right away. Sad because they are neat.”

“I used to have one of the first jetboils. It was neat, but heavy, so I sold it. Last week I checked on the newer versions. Pretty, but still heavy. They didn't have the titanium version in stock. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the jetboil not going to make my list.”

“..not just heavy, also big.

Ten days is a long haul just to carry enough food. This is why I like quickbreads like pancakes.

Flour/corn meal packs small and fills you up...but then you're full on cooking and you'll need butter/olive oil & syrup. Still, that stuff packs calories small. It's also really nice to have two burners when actually cooking so alcohol looks like the best choice. Take some esbit for emergency. YMMV.”

“..or esbit and alcohol for emergency for the long stretch..”

“geesh, pick one already ;)”

“Trying to decide is part of the fun. I've got two weeks of indecision before my next big trip.”

“Lol... What toejam said... It's fun trying to decide.
Hush ewker! :)”

“i have an early jetboil, i always thought it wasnt to heavy, but then, ive never been to picky and weighed my stuff or anything like that, and ive never had to carry as long as you would.”

“Thank you Karo!!! :) I owe you a big bottle of great beer.
Mix of esbit and some alcohol for backup.... That's what I will be using.”

“Bring 151 and you can shoot it at the end of the trail when you know you'll have enough esbit!”

“Ha! Great idea... Finishing the JMT in a trance ;).”

“The party will be raging at Outpost Camp. I'm sure a sailor would buy you a drink.”

“here is a link to a simmer ring attachment for the TD alcohol stove. I'm gonna give them a call and try to order one.”

“Interesting... Let me know how it works. Curious.”

“Here is a link to antigravitygear.com's fuel tabs for esbit type stoves. They may be worth a try. I got 2 cups to boil with half an esbit tab using the caldera cone set up that I have sent to Gem to try out.
http://www.antigravitygear.com/bleuet-solid-fuel-tabs-12-pk.html”