The War on Christianity

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Steve Lawrence
Brenda Lee
Julie London
Peggy March (in German as �Das kann der Anfang unserer Liebe sein�)
Tony Martin
Roy Orbison
Joe Pass (instrumental)
Ringo Shiina
Frank Sinatra with the Count Basie orchestra on their 1964 album It Might as Well Be Swing.
Richard Tucker on his 1966 Columbia album What Now My Love: Richard Tucker Sings Today's Great Popular Favorites.
Jerry Vale
The Ventures (instrumental)
Andy Williams
Kai Winding (instrumental) � a mainstream hit, reaching #8 on Billboard's pop chart and #2 on the easy-listening chart.
The Young Rascals
Jim Nabors
Donald Braswell II
Shirley Bassey
&
Bill Evans

”

“Christians in Muslim Lands

By Chuck Colson|Published Date: January 12, 2010

Why did the U.S. media breathlessly report the Swiss banning of minarets, but stayed largely mum on the murder of Egyptian Christians?

This past weekend, an estimated 1,000 Coptic Christians gathered in Los Angeles to protest the killings of fellow Copts in Egypt a few days earlier. According to one protester, “there is no protection for Christians in Egypt.”

Judging by the coverage, the media isn’t helping matters.

The events that triggered the protests took place on the Coptic Christmas. A gunman opened fire on a crowd of worshipers leaving midnight mass in the ancient city of Nag Hammadi. Seven Copts were killed, most instantly. At least another six were wounded.

According to many press reports, the killings were in retaliation for the “alleged sexual assault of a Muslim girl by a Christian man, in November.” That, of course, doesn’t take into account the five days of looting and burning of Coptic homes and businesses immediately following the alleged assault.

Those who are familiar with the plight of Egyptian Christians know that violence and repression are part and parcel of their lives. In 2006, five Copts were stabbed, one fatally, while leaving Good Friday services in Alexandria. This was part of a larger assault against Christians at four different churches that left several Coptic Christians dead and at least 17 wounded.

At CBS noted at the time, the Egyptian government has a history of playing down violence against its Christian population.

It’s far from alone in that respect: in his 57-minute address at Cairo University, president Obama never uttered the word “Copt” and only mentioned religious freedom—specifically, the lack of it—in passing.

Then there’s the media. In its reports on the Nag Hammadi killings and their aftermath, the Associated Press called the killings the product of “sectarian strains.” Well! To say Coptic Christians have “strained” relationships with their Muslim neighbors is like saying a nail has a strained relationship with a hammer. Copts are second-class citizens in the land they have occupied since time immemorial.

Besides being the targets of periodic violence, they are discriminated against in employment and what the AP calls “church construction disputes.” Those so-called disputes are, in fact, “severe restrictions” on the building or repairing of their churches.

This lack of attention to the plight of Christians is Islamic lands isn’t limited to Egypt. At the same time the media convulsed over the Swiss ban on minarets, the Malaysian government banned and seized Bibles. Why? Because they used the word “Allah,” which is Malay for “God.”

It didn’t stop there. The Malaysian government banned Catholic newspapers from using the word as well. The government position was that only Muslims could use the word. After Malaysia’s high court ruled that the ban was unconstitutional, Muslim extremists took a more-direct approach: They started setting churches on fire.

The story has been covered in the foreign media, but Americans might be hard-pressed to know how difficult things are for our brethren living in Muslim lands. That’s because, as CNN’s William Schneider put it, “the press just...doesn’t get religion.”

That leaves many Christians, in Egypt and elsewhere, unprotected and unnoticed. Call it adding insult to injury.”

“WAR! Christians, raise up your collection plates and forgive these motherfcukers into submission!”

“

He's a dang bug!”

“Gawd won the last battle against xtians yesterday down in Haiti.”

“yeah, but I'm a scary dang bug! ooooh, boogey boogey boogey”

““It's funny when a subhuman like markO judges other people. LOL”
Stovie
2:33:22 PM
1/12/10

Ooooh, I loves it when you talks dirty to me, Stobie!

You nasty old gob..............you!”

“How many divisions has the pope[q]''
Josef Stalin

Upon his return to his native Poland, Pope John Paul II set the wheels in motion that would lead to the Solidarity Movement, which in turn lead to the fall of Communism in Europe. Divisions, indeed.

Pope John Paul II was seen by more people than anyone in history. One audience was the largest gathering of human beings ever - a crowd of an estimated 5-7 million people.

His funeral hosted the largest gathering of world leaders ever, including four kings, five queens, 50 heads of state, and leaders of all the world's major religions.

He was the Vicar of Christ - and everyone knew it.”

“Several weeks ago the dogs and I took a walkabout after my session at the library where I am currently TTing. The library sits in the middle of what was just a couple years ago a 100 acre pasture. Nearby are a new police precinct, firehouse (firehall for those of you wrapped - as you read this - in swaddling blankets, coats, cozies, etc. Heh), and a church.

The mutts and I bee-lined across the pastureland to the woodline - it is here that I hoped to find bare earth, and hopefully an arrowhead or two. We followed the treeline clockwise, which led us in a spiral toward the church. We barely squeezed between the building and a retention pond. This led to the sprawling patio in the front, and a stone marked "Saint Mary Magdelene Catholic Church - 2007". Wow. A brand new catholic church in unincorporated Coweta County. I went inside. I poked the basin of holy water, crossed myself as I genuflected to the Tabernacle, lowered a nearby kneeler and kneeled upon it. I studied the painted crucifix above the altar. It looks middle-agey; downright Byzantine. Before I read the sign out front, I was already suspecting Eastern Orthodox based on the shape of the cross atop the spire - but I digress.

I prayed. I meditated. I smiled and I grimmaced.

I rose and approached the altar, bowed to the Crucifix then continued to the right where I paused once more, genuflecting to the Tabernacle again - or more specifically, the Sacred Sacrament within. From there, I followed the 14 Stations of the Cross - pausing to light a votive candle between 7 and 8.

I left, to return for midnight mass on Christmas eve.


I was just there again as I whiled away 45 minutes for the library to open. I caught the tail-end of a communion service, then kneeled for a while. Then I opened the missalette to catch-up since Christmass. The Gospel reading last Sunday was John, chapter 2, verses 1-11.

The marriage that Jesus and Mary were invited to at Cana. The bride's father was distraught because the wine was running low - oy vey! Mary had a plan...

She got Jesus off to the side and beseeched that he turn some water into wine. He declined - suspecting that he was probably not ready.
"You're ready" quoth she.
"Go ahead - I double-dog dare ya!"
So he did. And it was some mighty fine wine, too!

One of the many many appeals of catholicism that attracted me is the Church's adoration of the saints - particulary Mary and Joseph (did I mention my name is Marion Joseph? :) I was my mama's baby. The youngest of six. Before she was quite finished raising me, she took her own life. I was 16, and suddenly very, very alone.

Virgin birth? Hell yeah! Can't you read? What part of "virgin birth" do you folks have difficulty with?”

“There has been much discussion on this thread about the wrongs commited in the name of Christianity. This brings me back to yet another factor affecting my decision to convert to Catholicism: Pope John Paul the Great.

Among the many things he accomplished were a number of official apologies. He apologized for the persecution of Jews (not sure about the inquisition - that was the king of Spain (Phillip?) behind that - not the church. And he addressed the rift (if you will) between Christianity and Islam. He cited the numerous wars, etc, and asked that we all forgive one another - Christian and Muslim alike. I'm cool with that. The church, in acknowledging wrong and asking for forgiveness, was absolved of those prior sins. It's called "reconciliation", and it's yet another appeal to catholicism - for me, anyhee.

Confession works. Even protestants do it - whether they realize it or not. They find their pastor in his office, close the door, then boo-hoo and gnash their teeth and wail "woe is me!" and beg for forgiveness. Then their pastor comforts them and reassures them that our God is a forgiving God and they are surely forgiven. Surely.

Confession comes in three forms. Personal, where we sit alone and meditate and pray and ask for forgiveness; public - during the mass the congregation states "I confess to almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned through my own fault. In my thoughts and in my words..."; and lastly, in the confessional. There we confess directly to Jesus Christ, who is seated nearby - wearing a Roman collar.

So the pope spoke for all Christianity - Roman and Byzantine and Eastern Orthodox catholics and protestants alike - when he asked God to forgive the Church. And we were forgiven. End of "nasty Christians!" discussion.”

“me and god, we got our own thang goin'”

“Jeeze, there really seem to be a LOT of child molesters hanging out in the Catholic Church under the guise of being men of the cloth.

I'd pretty much keep my kids away from it based on that alone.”

“Jeeze, rosey!
WHAT THE FUKK YOU DOING SITTING THERE?! You should go directly to the proper authorities in your jursudiction and report these wrongdoings! Quit fiddle-fukking around TT and get those MUDDAFUGGAS THROWN AWAY! (so they will be promptly dispatched by the inmates like whats-his-name was a few years ago).

But seriously - if you know of any child molestation, PLEASE go to the authorities. You can do this w/o worry of retribution. Look it up in the phone book - there's probably a hotline.”

“"I need no go-between"
~CB

I guess you're speaking of confession? (I have you on ignore).

So you prefer "personal" confession. I'm cool with that, too. Hike your own hike.”

“I guess you're speaking of confession?

you are correct”

“Tried. No will do. So there!

Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!”

“i hate child molestors, and im no fan of the catholic church, but rosey's post is pure ad hominem. the catholic church does not condone the actions of isoloated perverts”

“Whatever you said...
'pology accepted! LOL!”

“It just covers it up.”

“dumbass”

“'the catholic church does not condone the actions of isoloated perverts”

According to who's history?”

“You're welcome :)”

“"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" ~ Thomas Jefferson”

“Slave driven fool talks about gawds wrath.LMAO Gawd was wrong to NOT allow different opinions, isn't that what freedom is all about, now, isn't that why no gawd exist, especially a gawd that thinks he god?LOL”

“Interesting to see a quote from Jefferson - who was opposed by clergy in his campaign for President in 1800 - because he was, according to them, not Christian.


"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
last edited: 1/25/10 12:04:01 PM”

“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom”

“pedy is confusing freedom or religion and having a country that holds dear it's God given freedoms”

“of”

“Jefferson considered himself a Christian in that he accepted the teachings of Christ which he felt were twisted and perverted beginning with Paul - right up to the preachers of his day.

For a view of Jefferson from what appears to be a strongly Christian perspective, check out:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/thomas_jefferson.htm”

“irrelevant”

“pedxing, want to explain to us what Jefferson actually being (or not) a Christian has to do with freedom of religion, or even more specifically if you like, his views on freedom of religion?”

“Mutt nailed it. The archdiosese knew all about the perving and yet, just kept moving the priests around to new churches, where they raped small children again.”

“This thread exposes the paranoia.”

“The topic of the thread is "The war on Christianity." When Jefferson is invoked on this thread referring to the importance of of understanding freedom as a gift from God, it is relevant - to me at least - to point out the God to whom he referred was not necessarily the God of Paul, of the Bible or of the Christian churches in this country and that some who call themselves Christians for more than two centuries have seen him as an enemy, attacked him and seen his as un-Christian.
last edited: 1/25/10 12:59:50 PM”

“This is a great quote:

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 (From Ped's link)

I have often hoped for the same thing.”

““Mutt nailed it. The archdiosese knew all about the perving and yet, just kept moving the priests around to new churches, where they raped small children again.”
roseymonster
1:24:27 PM
1/25/10

It goes to the top much like the way the U.S. Army covered up the murder and abuse of civilians in Vietnam.
That too went to the top.
Like the catholic church they did not want to lose qualified and trained personnel.
With no one accountable the abuse is not likely to stop.”

“WOW...so mankind's abuse of a system means we can deny the entire system...OKEE DOKEE...how bout them Pervs in the Education Industry?

Now if we consider the pervs in the Catholic church in a percentage versus say Normal Society...whats the comparison?”

“He wasn't referring to Jesus? By your own quote ... he was referring to ALL religions! all gods!

His point was the government needs to stay out of ALL of these "wars". His personal religious belief is irrelevant.”

“"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.

The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.

Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.

Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly.

The profession of shaman has many advantages. It offers high status with a safe livelihood free of work in the dreary, sweaty sense. In most societies it offers legal privileges and immunities not granted to other men. But it is hard to see how a man who has been given a mandate from on High to spread tidings of joy to all mankind can be seriously interested in taking up a collection to pay his salary; it causes one to suspect that the shaman is on the moral level of any other con man. But it is a lovely work if you can stomach it.

Faith strikes me as intellectual laziness.

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.

The Bible is such a gargantuan collection of conflicting values that anyone can prove anything from it.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.

A religion is sometime a source of happiness, and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong. The great trouble with religion - any religion - is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. One may bask at the warm fire of faith or choose to live in the bleak certainty of reason- but one cannot have both."
Robert Heinlein

Astute feller, that Heinlein.”

“All I read was "Faith strikes me as intellectual laziness."”

“I certainly agree that one of his points "was the government needs to stay out of ALL of these "wars".

If you think it already understood that Jefferson thought Christianity deserved no special place in American public institutions relative to any other religion or to the beliefs of the infidel, then I can see why you think my comments entirely unnecessary.”

“'Nuff said.”

“If you think it already understood that Jefferson thought Christianity deserved no special place in American public institutions relative to any other religion or to the beliefs of the infidel

First off, "infidel"? You're sounding more like Osama Bin Laden everyday. haha - I kid.

Secondly, you only emphasized his point from one angle. The angle you left out, the one that is pertinent to this thread, is that he also intends that government ALLOW people to freely worship, and to include their religious beliefs both IN and out of government.”

“FG, I'll take the one thing in your personal religious belief that you mentioned as fact, and address that. I'll leave the rest, admittedly opinion, unchallenged and focus on the lone intellectually lazy "fact" that you provided for your argument.

The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.



Where did you get the notion that God can be persuaded by prayers?”

“I do not hold such a ridiculous notion, but all of the 'faithful' do. Otherwise, why would they bother to pray? Had you read the whole thing in context, HPD, you would not have felt compelled to ask me such a question, as it is (or should be) abundantly clear that I do not believe it.”

“I do not hold such a ridiculous notion, but all of the 'faithful' do.

Again, absolutely false.

Otherwise, why would they bother to pray?

The main reason that Christians pray is to grow closer to God, to build a relationship with Him. Just like children speak to their parents to learn to grow and to build that relationship.

You are probably familiar with the Lord's Prayer. That is the most famous of the Christians prayers and in it it gives very specific guidance that we are praying not so that things go our way, or to influence God, but so that His "will be done".

There are other reasons for prayer which I'll be glad to go into if you'd like.

Had you read the whole thing in context, HPD, you would not have felt compelled to ask me such a question, as it is (or should be) abundantly clear that I do not believe it.

I did, and don't think you thought that, but what you did obviously believe is that homo sapiens "perpetrated" the idea that "the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers", and that just is not the case.”

“HPD, I haven't been back long enough to get to know you, so I cannot form an opinion on your intellectual capacity. The old timers around here will tell you that I do not mince words. From what I have seen, I do not think that you are an idiot, therefore I can only conclude that you are being deliberately obtuse.”