Question for Christians

“Well good for you crashh....We disagree. I see it differently
"Forged in Faith", "The Sacred Fire", and "The 5,000 Year Leap" and I'll bet you see it my way.

In order for the progressive movement to take hold,Woodrow Wilson knew he would have to get rid of 3 things;
The Constitution
The good name of the founding fathers
The people's faith and morality

In other words, rewrite history. Looks like he did a good job on you boys...”

“We disagree. I see it differently

thats because im rational



"Forged in Faith", "The Sacred Fire", and "The 5,000 Year Leap" and I'll bet you see it my way

i doubt it. but just for sh4ts and giggles, can you summarize what their main argument is?

In other words, rewrite history. Looks like he did a good job on you boys

bullsh6t. you have provided ONE founding father who appears to be pro-christian. no re-writing needed to be done. only your ineptness at rational discourse is necessary here”

“just for the sake of argument, let's say youre right, strat. let's say the founding fathers intended our country to be a christian nation

whats your point? what does that prove?”

“See... Royals fans are Satan worshipers. Just like Razorbacks.

Yeah, but are you gettin' it?
Armageddon it!
Ooh, really gettin' it?
Yes, Armaggedon it!

”

“And now on to my Question.

"Which" Christian Principals? Pentecostal? Missionary Baptist? Espiscopalian? Lutheran?”

“Chili, you have a good point. I go to an Episcopal church, which is VERY progressive. Things weren't as foggy back then, the lines were much more black and white than they are now.

Here's my point, which I think I have illustrated well.....if we are an immoral people, the nation will fall. From the looks of things, we are well on our way, which is exactly what the uber-progressives have been working on for the last 100 years.

Prove me wrong....”

“Prove me wrong....”

youre making all the assertions. the burden of proof is on YOU

in the last several decades slavery has been abolished, women have been given the right to vote, segregation and apartheid have been turned back.........

yea, so much evil”

“


You know what's funny? Atheists arguing about religion. Now, that's funny!”

“I didn't think you could do it crash....

LOL HPD!”

“racism on the decline, sexism on the decline, improvements in medical technology, etc

ive just given 6 or 7 examples of how youre wrong about the nation falling, while you have given none backing up your claim

tell me again how youre winning the debate?
last edited: 6/02/10 2:34:58 PM”

“strat, you are serious fvcking fail in this department

you provide ONE example for your founding father religion argument

you provide NO examples for you moral decline of america argument

and yet you think you have "illustrated well"



”

“"and yet you have "illustrated well"


Is that how you talk in real life?

FIXED (even worse now)
last edited: 6/02/10 2:43:05 PM”

“who the hell are you talking to, hpd? who said that?”

“Because he has gawd on his slide.”

“

and yet .... you think you have "illustrated well"”

“im just throwing strat's words back at him. who the hell says "illustrated well" IRL?”

“"Yes, mister crash bang"

”

“youre in a weird mood today, arent you?”

“made you laugh”

“yes, you did”

“The previous George Bush was married to George Washington — why don't you ask him?”

“Thanks for the replies guys.”

“boob boobies”

“When someone thinks it's ok to take my money and give it to someone else, that in my mind it immoral. If it's ok to take your money and give it to me, that's immoral. If it's ok for government to take my money and kill unborn babies with it, that's immoral

3 perfect examples”

“your first two examples are the same goddamn thing.

so communism and abortion are immoral. fine i wont argue with that

but ive provided examples of how the world is becoming a better place: decreasing racism, decreasing sexism, etc

conclusion: some things are better, some things are worse”

“If you work for someone else that picks through your check and tells the gov all about you , you are stuck with that result. Had you read the tax code when you were a youngster, you would know better than to stick your name in the 'Here I am Camp'.”

“ 'If it's ok for government to take my money and kill unborn babies with it, that's immoral'

How many orphans have you adopted and cared for?”

“Crash, this Nation is the reason the world took a 5,ooo year leap...this form of government is what changed everything.

This form of government was based on honor, morality, and individual rights. The founding fathers predicted what is happening today. They warned us over and over about people trying to dismantle capitalism brick by brick. That is what is happening by the neo-progressives in charge right now. They have eroded our fundamental principals.

What makes(made) America great wasn't the people, it was the form of government that allowed the people to achieve greatness”

“Population, population, population!”

“Strat, how does any of that blather address anything?

your brand spanking new point is that govt, not people, make a nation great? this is the new direction youre taking this discussion?

fvck it. i cant take this anymore. its like arguing with an autisic on crack”

“kill unborn babies with it, that's immoral


Stratd00d
6:48:32 AM
6/03/10

The medical community isn't in agreement on this issue; the Theological community isn't in agreement on this issue; Americans aren't in agreement on this issue, yet you want everyone to adopt your view?

That is why I ask "which" Christian principals. Not all Christians agree on abortion which is why women should have a choice.”

“Wouldn't it make more sense, if there is so much uncertainty, to err on the side of, oh, I don't know, ... NOT KILLING A BABY!”

“Yet, you want everyone else to live in a society where potentially KILLING BABIES is legal?

Wow dude. The arrogance.”

“If you are a big boy and don't want it, you can just NOT do it. This is the problem with christians, they want everyone to live under their fvcking laws. Prohibition does not work with anything unless you're a fan of massive cops and robbers as we are destroying this county with RIGHT NOW.”

“while i am against abortion, chili raises a fair point in that if youre going to enumerate the reasons why america is becoming more EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL and immoral, you should pick a less contentious example in order to make a more solid argument”

“uncliff, it was progressives that broguht us prohibition

crash and chili, I'm not arguing the question of abortion, I'm arguing the government sponsoring it and paying for it with my money”

“uncliff - under your logic we should be allowed to murder random people on the streets, as long as we don't force other people too. Have you thought about your position?”

“A christian calling someone else arrogant is a prize to behold.”

“"Yet, you want everyone else to live in a society where potentially KILLING BABIES is legal?

Wow dude. The arrogance.”

Since when are a "fetus" and a "baby" the same thing?

Wow, the arrogance.”

“Murder could very well be legal as it was in the days of bounty hunters, if the worthless gov can't get them then the private sector may have to. You crits talk about freedom as long as your bible dudes have the say in the 'freedom to do what'. Do you really have to stress over what someone, miles away from you, might be doing that has no effect on you what so ever?”

“so it's not the killing of babies that is evil to you, strat.

it's that someone is taking your money

as a matter of fact, all of the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVILS that youve listed come down to money

YOU are what is what is wrong with this country

YOU are evil”

“it was progressives that broguht us prohibition

LOL!!!!Maybe you should check up on that a little more...christian...ROTFLMFAO!!!!”

“ok crash, you've muddied the waters enough dood...have a great day”

“Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers
# of Founding

Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204”

“The signers of the Declaration of Independence were a profoundly intelligent, religious and ethically-minded group. Four of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were current or former full-time preachers, and many more were the sons of clergymen. Other professions held by signers include lawyers, merchants, doctors and educators. These individuals, too, were for the most part active churchgoers and many contributed significantly to their churches both with contributions as well as their service as lay leaders. The signers were members of religious denominations at a rate that was significantly higher than average for the American Colonies during the late 1700s.

These signers have long inspired deep admiration among both secularists (who appreciate the non-denominational nature of the Declaration) and by traditional religionists (who appreciate the Declaration's recognition of God as the source of the rights enumerated by the document). Lossing's seminal 1848 collection of biographies of the signers of the Declaration of Independence echoed widely held sentiments held then and now that there was divine intent or inspiration behind the Declaration of Independence. Lossing matter-of-factly identified the signers as "instruments of Providence" who have "gone to receive their reward in the Spirit Land."

From: B. J. Lossing, Signers of the Declaration of Independence, George F. Cooledge & Brother: New York (1848) [reprinted in Lives of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence, WallBuilder Press: Aledo, Texas (1995)], pages 7-12:

From no point of view can the Declaration of American Independence, the causes which led to its adoption, and the events which marked its maintenance, be observed without exciting sentiments of profound veneration for the men who were the prominent actors in that remarkable scene in the drama of the world's history...

The signing of that instrument was a solemn act, and required great firmness and patriotism in those who committed it... neither firmness nor patriotism was wanting in that august body...

Such were the men unto whose keeping, as instruments of Providence, the destinies of America were for the time intrusted; and it has been well remarked, that men, other than such as these,--an ignorant, untaught mass, like those who have formed the physical elements of other revolutionary movements, without sufficient intellect to guide and control them--could not have conceived, planned, and carried into execution, such a mighty movement, one so fraught with tangible marks of political wisdom, as the American Revolution...

Their bodies now have all returned to their kindred dust in the grave, and their souls have gone to receive their reward in the Spirit Land.

From: Robert G. Ferris (editor), Signers of the Declaration: Historic Places Commemorating the Signing of the Declaration of Independence, published by the United States Department of the Interior, National Park Service: Washington, D.C. (revised edition 1975), pages 27-28:

Liberally endowed as a whole with courage and sense of purpose, the signers [of the Declaration of Independence] consisted of a distinguished group of individuals. Although heterogeneous in background, education, experience, and accommplishments, at the time of the signing they were practically all men of means and represented an elite cross section of 18th-century American leadership. Everyone one of them of them had achieved prominence in his colony, but only a few enjoyed a national reputation.

The signers were those individuals who happened to be Delegates to Congress at the time... The signers possessed many basic similarities. Most were American-born and of Anglo-Saxon origin. The eight foreign-born... were all natives of the British Isles. Except for Charles Carroll, a Roman Catholic, and a few Deists, every one subscribed to Protestantism. For the most part basically political nonextremists, many at first had hesitated at separation let alone rebellion.”

“Separation of church and state and that's the fact, jack.”

“What about morality, rosey?

Should government be immoral?”

“Should government be immoral

govt should stay out of the morality dept. the only time govt should meddle in my affairs is if i am denying someone their constitutional rights”

“it was progressives that broguht us prohibition

wow. i missed that one. who said it and when? that sounds like an hpd'ism”

“just stating that most of the founding fathers happened to be christians in no way implies, let alone proves, that they believed the govt should be a theocracy, or that christianity should be the official religion of the country”