What do you EXPECT (from America)

“"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Here we are. Americans. Home of the free, land of the brave -- which begs the question, what do you expect from America?

Is it wrong to expect a job to last for as long as you work it? Is it wrong not to expect it to be shipped overseas one day?

What about health care? Is it within our rights to be able to AFFORD it? And what about these astronomical medical bills that go over our paid limits?

I want to make it perfectly clear, I do not expect America to give me so much that I don't have to move off the couch, but what SHOULD a country provide?

It is the job of the government to protect and provide for people in the country. The sign of a civilized country is how they treat their weak and poor. The less civilized the more likely the country is to abandon people who are poor, weak or sick to their own devices.

Is it the country's role to make every attempt to provide employment for people? Why is the unemployment rate so high?

In these days before the elections, just what do we EXPECT? (Which of course, begs the question, which one of these candidates has the best chance of making some real progress?)
last edited: 9/05/08 4:25:23 PM”

“typical. Yet more "what can America give me" silliness. Give those things to yourself.”

“LOLz..

I'm just bitter cos I got laid off last Friday.”

“I expect that the government to maintain polices to continue to give us the lowest non-subsidized gasoline in the world.

I expect the government to maintain an economy that gives America the best affluence of any major nation in the world.

I expect the government to maintain policies that give us the longest lifespans for deaths for health related reasons.

I expect the government to maintain the current tax rate that keeps our tax freedom day in April, instead of June or July like Canada and most European countries.”

“In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shank from this responsibility - I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavour will light our country and all who serve it -- and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. 

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. 

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. 

Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.”

“40 acres and a mule.”

“Sorry about the job, TD.


Geez hiker1984, what religious conservative nutcase wrote that nonsense??”

“Thanks nonconformist. hopefully I interviewed for the job I will get offered first of next week

Prosecutor -- Good answer. VERY close to my own sentiments as well.”

“If a man is willing to work he can work! Since I retired from the Army and went to work in the civilized world I cannot believe the lazy a$$ sons o #&%!$es that are gettin paid in this country let them go without money and health care and when America goes hungry maybe they'll wake up and decide to work for it!!!!!!!!!”

“I hear ya Spam!

I expect my country to just let me be. Stay out of my business, let me work and keep most of my pay for myself and my family. I have no problem paying taxes as long as the money is used for EXACTLY what it is supposed to be used for and is kept to a minimum.”

“I expect my country to allow me to succeed or fail by my own hand.”

“�If a man is willing to work he can work!"

Sell that line to bitpusher who saw his job get outsourced to an overseas group. I am seeing good people get laid off left and right. Yeah, there are jobs out there, but I am not sure who can feed a family of four on $8 an hour.

I don't expect something for nothing and I an not asking my government to provide that.

But, I am asking for leaders who can actually exhibit the type of compassion they PROFESS to hold as a part of their religious beliefs. Hypocrisy has run rampant.”

“I'm sorry if Bit is having a rough go of it, thats very unfortunate and I might sound like some of you guys Grandfathers out there but...I have been without a job for exactly one week since I was 15 years old and thats the honest truth.A man has to take a job immediatly and if it isn't his first choice of a job use it until you can get to where you want to be but continue trying to get there!”

“You see very few cobblers, wagon whip makers, or conestoga wagon makers these days. Industries change. They always have and they always will. Change with them”

“Drill, drill, drill for a new america.”

“chili36,

Compassion by government leaders isn't as simple as giving cash to out-of-work citizens, or raising the minimum wage.

Compassionate leaders must consider the big picture instead of reacting with their hearts while not considering consequences.

Some things for them to consider -

It's not their money to hand out. The money comes directly from other citizens who are forced to give up their hard earned money. Those citizens must be able to trust that the governnment isn't using their money as a crutch for others. I'm not suggesting using it for unemployment benefits is always used AS a crutch versus a legitimate safety net, I'm simply suggesting they must determine and set a line in the sand for that.

They must consider what they were hired to do, so as not to overstep their bounds. As government leaders, their job does not consist of the ability to react to every market change. Capitalism works best when you mostly leave it alone. It's centered around an incentive based system, and when you mess too much with those incentives, you risk throwing the whole marketplace out of whack. Not very compassionate to the remaining 99% of people who then suffer the negative effects. It's a fact that the more you approach a welfare state, the less incentive people have to find work. As they get hungry, they WILL find work. Those few that turn to crime instead are typically those stuck in a welfare state of mind to begin with. Again, the line of how much "change" to exert must be drawn discrimately in order to keep a balance.

Compassion is preached from the bible to be an ideal for individuals. A government exerting (too much) compassion (i.e. - using tax monies) is akin to forcing individuals (taxpayers) to demonstrate compassion, something that is technically impossible. Giving, feeding, clothing, these things bibically should come from the heart. By forcing peopke to give to a cause they may or may not not believe in (the disequillibrium example given above demonstrates why someone may be agauinst increased welfare), you're only creating an environment of animosity, nothing compassionate about that.

Leaders should lead By example, not through force. The bible doesn't preach to lead by force. They should give of themselves, and encourage other citizens to do the same. When neighbors help neighbors, the lOve and encouragent works in ways a government program never could. Sometimes the numbers on paper don't give the situation justice. You can't quantify love.

Compassionate leaders who live be their faith must consider the entire picture before falling into the risky legilative trappings of parental governmening. They must exercise good judgment of when to pick up Johnny citizen when he's fallen, and when to stand back like a concerned but loving mother and let Johnny stand up on his own and brush off the dust from his knees. The bible teaches compassion, and compassion includes discretion.”

“I am just a high school grad and I have never had a problem finding a job. Yes, some of my jobs were low paying, some were really hard, some were dangerous, and some just totally sucked, but I have always kept a positive attitude and kept my eyes open. I try to live with-in my means and not get carried away when I do get extra money. There were many times I worked two jobs to make ends meet. I am not rich by any means, but I was able to take 6 months off to hike the A.T., but it took a lot of planning and was not easy.
I hear a lot of people make jokes about others working at grocery stores, fast food places etc., but I think "Hey, at least they ARE working".
It's not always how much money you make, but what you do with the money you make.”

“Curious, how many folks against outsourcing drive foreign cars?”

“Birch, many foreign cars are now made in America. The American car companies blew it by convincing the Bush Administration to do away with progressive fuel economy standards in the U.S. The result was that foreign automakers saw the gap first and filled it. American car manfacturers woke up too late. I feel for the folks on the line that have lost jobs because of the narrow-sighted mistakes of management. It's their heads that should roll. I think if Amercan car manfacturers can catch back up, make fuel efficient, reliable vehicles, they will gain the trust of U.S. residents and people will buy American again. But this is part of the deal with a free and open market -- capitalism at its most basic. However, there should be incentives for companies to keep jobs in the U.S. Somewhere along the way, we lost sight of that.”

“duplicate
last edited: 9/06/08 8:44:13 AM”

“Birch, many foreign cars are now made in America. - rm

so, what do you drive?”

“Rosey, Good to see ya back..

Yes foreigh cars are built here, I debated going to work for toyota recently. The issue is where the profits go and the unequal tarriffs placed on american vehicles by foreign countries like japan. And its not like its a one for one swap you just switch companies. Michigan has lost 10's of thousands of manufacturing jobs (not just cars but appliances one town was hit with 3500 at once) to mexico etc. But when IT folks and college degreed jobs go, then its horrible deal. I also understand the realities of a global market and am okay with, thats life.

My point was that people get all bummed when they or their friends lose a job overseas but when it happens to others they dont know its no biggy.

edit

Whats the saying, "if my neighbor loses a job its a recession, if i lose mine its a depression"
last edited: 9/06/08 9:00:05 AM”

“I expect the government to maintain policies that give us the longest lifespans for deaths for health related reasons.

prosecutor
4:33:25 PM
9/05/08

I don't know what this means, could you clarify?”

“Hey TD - I'm sorry about the lay off. It truly s-cks. I hope the next job comes quickly ad works out well.”

“The big three put most of their resources into truck/SUV production thinking the Americans would never turn their back on them...amazing what $4/gallon will do. I feel they got their just reward.

Meanwhile Toyota employs 7,000 people in KY plus however many 1000s of spin off jobs created by suppliers of the plant. Georgetown has more money than it knows what to do with though growth will slowly equalize this gain.

I do not feel bad for American automakers...they created their problem.

I do not feel bad for the workers at the Louisville Ford plant. Even if they do not hit a lick for 5 years they will get 90% of their pay because of the union contract and the average salary is around $50,000. Most that got laid off chose this option over buy-out or retraining.”

“Hey, I'm okay. I got another job about 3 months after I was laid off, and I'm still working. Thanks for thinking about me though.”

““Birch, many foreign cars are now made in America. The American car companies blew it by convincing the Bush Administration to do away with progressive fuel economy standards in the U.S. The result was that foreign automakers saw the gap first and filled it. American car manfacturers woke up too late. I feel for the folks on the line that have lost jobs because of the narrow-sighted mistakes of management. It's their heads that should roll. I think if Amercan car manfacturers can catch back up, make fuel efficient, reliable vehicles, they will gain the trust of U.S. residents and people will buy American again. But this is part of the deal with a free and open market -- capitalism at its most basic. However, there should be incentives for companies to keep jobs in the U.S. Somewhere along the way, we lost sight of that.”
roseymonster
9:43:30 AM

Rosey, I am going to assume you were mixing arguments here by just tossing off the statement about foreign cars built in America before you moved on to what happens when the big 3 lose market share and Americans start buying cars built overseas. But if you weren't then wouldn't the line jobs gained by foreign cars being built in the US replace the jobs lost by the big 3 production slow down?”

“6.1% is high unemployment?”

“The unemployment rate under Bush has been so low, the libs have forgotten? what normal is.”

“hiker1984 you responded to my statement as if I used the word "charity" instead of "compassion"”

“As I've tried many times to explain here, Japan used the supply side ATM real estate game over twenty years ago-Man, what an outcome that's had. Consider what that % would be if illegals were included?”

“Glad to see we came up with a good thread for discussion. We had a lively one here among friends until about midnight last night.”

“The outsourcing issue is one that fals close to home for me. I did not loose my job to it, however I left before it could happen. If you ask the attorney's that went from making an average of 600K to almost 900K after teh accounting and other departments were outsourced, they would say they love it. The work product has suffered though and some clients left because of screw ups an American worker would not have made. In the long run, it has paid off.

Ford and GM continue to lay off workers, however the white collar employes stay and continue to pull in major bonuses. Upper management is bleeding these companies dry. You doon't hear much about American workers being laid off from the Honda and Toyota plants in the states.



Oh yea, and to answer the main question posed, I would expect and hope that America invests more in its people than that of other countries.
last edited: 9/07/08 7:30:04 AM”

“maybe you don't hear about American workers being laid off from the Honda and Toyota plants in the states because Americans prefer those cars over the ones built by the big 3 US companies. Or maybe its because foreign auto makers locate their plants in Non-union states which allow them to concentrate on building cars rather than negotiating with crime bosses. Maybe because the workers who make slightly less money working the plants run by foreign auto makers are actually happier workers because they aren't forced into an US against Them mentality by their Union bosses. happier workers are better workers. Maybe its because its cheaper to build cars in states who need the jobs offered by these manufacturers and are willing to offer deals to get them to build in their state. Maybe its because the union upper management might be just as greedy/inept as the Big 3's upper management.

There are lots of reasons that midwest union auto workers are losing their jobs while their cousins in the southern states aren't. It isn't just because the big 3 have bad upper management.”

“Unions were a necessary force at one point. However, over the past 50 years, they have about bargained themselves out of the market.

There is such a thing as too good of a deal.”

“chili, what compassionate actions that politicians should take were you referring to?”

“that is exactly my POV on Unions. Once upon a time they were desperately needed, but that time has long gone. The day after the 6.1% unemployment number was announced one union had their people go on strike. Whats that all about. I am sure someone would be happy to have their job at the current compensation (or probably even less)”

“Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

Which candidate in the 2008 race is most likely to make this statement?”

“Great question bacpac!

http://thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/50433,5,1.php

"Hey Obamamites,

Which candidata do you think would be more likely to ask the question "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."?

Obama or McCain?

hiker1984
9:25:44 PM
9/04/08”

““6.1% is high unemployment?”
gojo
3:51:44 AM
9/07/08
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“The unemployment rate under Bush has been so low, the libs have forgotten? what normal is.”
Hiker1984
9:41:10 AM
9/07/08

Unemployment for 2000, the year before Bush came into office was 4.0%, In 1999, unemployment was 4.2 % The only Clinton years in which unemployment was 6.1% or higher were 1993 and 1994, when it was on its way down from 7.5% in the previous President Bush's last year.”

“When unemployment hit 4.2% for 1999, that was the lowest since LBJ was president, and then it went down further in 2000 (didn't beat LBJ's best, though)”

“Does that somehow negate or otherwise relate to my post?”