Toyota #2 in US Sales, Ford #3

“I usually don't post news articles but was pretty excited about this. Toyota built a plant in WV when I was a kid and it helped our economy so much by providing thousands of jobs to people in a remote area of the state. Every GM or Ford I've owned has been a piece a crap and had all kinds of problems, alternators, compressors, computers, etc. Then I had that Hyundai in college and for 150,000 miles never had one problem, never even had to change the brakes. So then I bought a Honda and loved it and also bought a Tacoma last month. More and more American's like me are tired of buying cars for a lot of money only to have to put them in the shop a couple times a year, and like me many have switched to a Honda or Toyota and as a result for the first time since 1931 Ford is not #2 in US car sales.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310ap_auto_sales.html?source=mypi

As soon as Toyota and Honda start offering 3/4 and 1 Ton trucks, a market they haven't moved into yet, they will move to the number 1 and 2 spots and maybe then our domestic automakers will take a look at quality and redesign their cars.

Toyota overtakes Ford as US 2nd biggest

By DEE-ANN DURBIN
AP AUTO WRITER
photo
Unsold 2008 F-150 pickup trucks sit at a Ford dealership in the southeast Denver suburb of Centennial, Colo., on Sunday, Dec. 30, 2007. Ford Motor Co.'s sales fell 9 percent in December, ending with a whimper a year that is expected to be the worst for the auto industry since 1998 as consumers fretted over high gas prices and the economy. (AP Photo/David Zalubowski)

DETROIT -- Toyota Motor Corp. overtook Ford Motor Co. to become the No. 2 automaker by U.S. sales in 2007, using new products and relentless strategy to break Ford's 76-year lock on the position.

Toyota sold 2.62 million cars and trucks in 2007, which amounted to 48,226 more than Ford, according to sales figures released Thursday. Toyota's sales were up 3 percent for the year, buoyed by new products like the Toyota Tundra pickup, which saw sales jump 57 percent. Ford's sales fell 12 percent to 2.572 million vehicles.

General Motors Corp. remained the U.S. sales leader, selling 3.82 million vehicles in 2007. But that was down 6 percent from the previous year as customers turned away from some large sedans and sport utility vehicles and GM cut low-profit sales to employees and rental car agencies. GM's car sales fell 8 percent for the year while truck sales were down 4 percent.

Overall, the year was expected to be the worst for the auto industry since 1998 as consumers fretted over high gas prices, falling home prices and the economy.

December also was tough month for automakers despite a slew of holiday discounts. Toyota's sales slipped 2 percent for the month, while GM's sales were down 4 percent and Ford's fell 9 percent. Honda Motor Co.'s December sales were flat, with a 10 percent increase in car sales canceled out by a 10 percent decline in truck sales.

"This was definitely a challenging year to be in the car business, and 2008 isn't likely to be a piece of cake," Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda, said in a statement.

Honda's full-year sales were up 2.5 percent.

Ford's car sales plummeted 24 percent for all of 2007 as some models like the Ford Mustang aged and a new Ford Taurus sedan was unable to match the volumes of the older version. Ford also cut rental-car sales by 32 percent over the year. Truck sales were down 5 percent.

Ford corporate historian Bob Kreipke said it was the first time since 1931 that Ford wasn't second behind GM in U.S. sales.

Jim Farley, who recently became Ford's global marketing chief after a career at Toyota, said the new numbers won't change Ford's recovery plan.

"In fact, it actually accelerates the way we're running the business," Farley told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday morning. "It accentuates the difference between how we're running the business and how our competitors are running the business. It requires us to stick to the plan, no doubt, but it also requires us to really accelerate the development of new products."

Farley pointed out that Ford had some hits in 2007, particularly its Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover vehicles. Ford crossovers grew 62 percent over the year, far outpacing the industrywide average of 17 percent, the company said.

Ford shares fell 15 cents to $6.45 in afternoon trading after sinking to a new 52-week low of $6.44 earlier in the session. GM shares lost 53 cents to $23.88 after dropping to a 52-week low of $23.34 earlier in the day. Toyota's U.S. shares rose 25 cents to $106.71 in afternoon trading in New York.”

“i was just in the town your tacoma was made in over christmas
last edited: 1/03/08 1:23:49 PM”

“Tora tora tora”

“Of course this is the case. Toyota innovated and captured the curve of smaller, more efficient, reliable cars. I don't why the American car companies were asleep at the wheel. Personally, because I think because a bunch of stodgy OLD white men run the show. They just kept cranking out the SUVs and didn't expect Iraq to pan out like it did. They were ignorant and unfortuantely, others in the company pay the price while the CEOS get raises and fat retirement packages.”

“don't forget the unions

(ducking for cover)”

“I couldn't imagine what the union workers are like at the car plants. About half of my clients are state agencies with unions and I could point out abut 20 million dollars in taxes wasted (our money) because of the unions. I think they do have their place, somewhere like WalMart. Toyota and Honda don't have unions and it takes 2 years to get a job at either, you have better raises and benefits than at a Big-3 plant and I've never talked to a worker who talked about working the systems like the union boys do. Not that the union is the cause of the bad cars produced by the big 3, but I'm sure it contributes. GM and Ford will need to be redesigned from the ground up if they plan to survive. Tides are changing.”

“I got laid off from General Motors in 1982 because of the impact of Japanese cars on the American market. GM has continued to lose market share ever since.

Sadly, while GM does make some really great world-class vehicles in some models, they have not improved in all categories and, IMHO do not have the leadership and manufacturing philosophy they need to compete against Toyota.

A really great book that compares Toyota to the Big Three in many aspects is, "Profit Beyond Measure" by Johnson and Broms. The authors are somewhat redundant and assume you have a production management background. But if you can get past that the content is worth understanding.

I wish GM had decided to attack the hybrid market...major strategic blunder. Not sure their fuel cell strategy will pay off.”

“I own 2 Toyotas and love them. When it's time for the next van I'll get a Honda. The Odyssey vans are made 15 minutes from my house and the largest single project I've ever done was on site.”

“I wish GM would have continued with their electric vehicle. It was a good idea that happened too soon - they could have smoked the hybrids, given that you still have to buy gasoline for hybrids....


The whole Japanese vs. US auto makers thing is pretty complex. There's a lot more to it than simply one makes a better product than the other. I'm sure I only understand a fraction of it....”

“I think the Japanese auto makers have succeded by designing and building what people want and the U.S. auto makers have lost market share by doing the opposite.

Stodgy old white men indeed.”

“Bought a Hyundai van in October and love it. I looked at all major models and this van was either tops in all categories or right at the top.

Bigger than the Honda and 15K less, cannot beat that.

They took the piece of #&%!$ Volvo off my hands as well.”

“what model is it WK? i'll be in the market for a family hauler soon”

“The price of the Honda will be tops on my radar screen. We'll probably be buying something in the 2 year old range though, but those vans hold value well.”

“http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/entourage/entourage.aspx

I got the limited for 27K. Dealer gave me 5K for the Volvo. He actually laughed at me. We were both there in seperate cars. He thought we were trading in my Jeep Wrangler. I told him to take his eyes of it and look at the car. He offered 11K for the Jeep and 4K for the car. I said, for christ's sake! It's a Volvo. He added a grand and showed me all kinds of litature on the 2000 S80's.

I played dumb the whole time, knowing all the time that it was not worth even 4K.”

“The idea of an "American" car or a "Japanese" car seems sorta weird, with GM parts made in Brazil and Ford parts in Mexico, while Toyotas are made in Indiana and Kentucky and...”

“I just love the fact that more and more Americans each year are purchasing cars made IN AMERICA by AMERICANS at non-union plants.

This helped Toyota establish #1 in the world which is more important to them.”

“I have no allegiance other than to what works best. I've had several toyotas andthey all performed much more reliably than any american car. Sadly, a tow truck driver will be here in 30 minutes to haul my '98 Tacoma to the body shop after a run in with a deer. It's got over 200K miles and all I've done is change oil, brakes, shocks and tires. I hope they don't total it.”

“I was a FORD man for a long time. Then when the Exploders started catching fire...I was in a training session, I asked a FORD rep why they didn't doa general recall...he said, "Its cheaper to fight the claims and pay them then do a recall."

I have a toyota Tacoma and the other half has the Highlander. LOVE em”

“I've put 57,000 miles on my Yaris in a year and a half and have had zero problems or defects. Gets 35-42 MPG too. It should have at least 250,000 when it's paid off.

I talked to a service guy at the local dealer and he was telling of a customer who had a '05 Camery with 300,000 miles on it and all she's ever done is general servicing.
last edited: 1/03/08 2:35:36 PM”

“I'm just about to put 200,000 on my Buick. Very few problems.

The Big Three have made a lot of mistakes, but they've made great gains in quality lately.

Toyota, of course, is the gold standard in the industry right now, but they've seen their quality slip a bit.

And the idea that Toyota is a non-union company is a joke. They've got all kinds of unions in Japan. They just don't have them here.”

“we have a brand new Chevrolet Malibu and that model will sink the camry and accord this year.”

“I have had almost every make of car and truck on the earth and as far as a truck is concerned nobody can touch a Chevy. When it come to cars there are quite a few that I would go with but to be honest look around next time you go out and count the Buicks that are still kickin it!”

“Most people I see driving Buicks are barely kickin' it!”

“I love my new Prius.....”

“I bought my first new car in 1987, a Dodge Daytona. It was so problematic that after 2 years I got rid of it and bought a Nissan Hardbody. Had that truck for 15 years with nothing but general maintainance. Traded it in for a 2002 Tacoma and love it. I also have a 1992 4Runner that I have had since 1994 and it has only been in the shop twice for repairs. Thats twice in 13 years. My wife had a 1997 olds cutlass that had its share of problem. She gave it to her son and bought a Honda CRV in 2004 and she loves it. I will never buy a big three car or truck ever.”

“Okay_-_-_-_- I own a Nissan.......are they cousins to Toyota? Or maybe siblings?

Does Tonka toys own Toyota or the other way around? I used to play with Tonka toys from way back and they were built FORD tough back then.”

“GM still rules and always will!”

“I think the quality of Toyota's 'cheap' cars has gone down somewhat. My 2005 Corolla is ageing fast.”

“GM still rules and always will!

Projected sales for 2008, if attained, put Toyota ahead of GM in world car sales.

Toyota is essentially an american car co..
last edited: 1/03/08 6:43:01 PM”

“I think the Japanese auto makers have succeded by designing and building what people want and the U.S. auto makers have lost market share by doing the opposite.
MarkO
2:44:26 PM
1/03/08


Then who the heck bought all those big SUVs in the past 25 years?”

“I have a 98 Ford Escort...I love it....it's been a great car.....and I got 35-39 MPG on my drive to Ohio
:)”

“I was born and bred a Chevy man and all of my first cars were made by GM and all of them failed me miserably. Before that Hyundai I would have never even considered a foreign car, in fact I went to buy an S10 and liked the Hyundai more. It never had a problem in 150K miles and that's what changed me. If Toyota and Honda start to slip in quality I would go to whatever was best. GM and Ford have years of bad quality to overcome to restore their customers confidence. The Camry and Accord are priced higher but are both the best selling cars in America, the US automakers only wish the Taurus and Malibu were anywhere near as reliable as their foreign twins.

My wife got a new Volvo S40 right after Ford bought them, worse car we have ever owned. Went through brakes every 10K miles, was in the shop every month. Bought a new Accord in 2005 and has never had a problem, gets 37mpg on the highway and is a midsize car. We'll drive that until we run out of room with kids an then we'll get an Odyssey.”

“I still buy GM cars and like them. My 1999 Grand Prix has been great and we love our 2002 Envoy.

I just wish GM leadership was better and really understood the customer and the competition.

One of the poorest quality & productivity assembly plants in GM was the Fremont plant. They closed it in 1982 and it later reopened under Toyota management (NUMMI). They used the same hourly employees to then produce some of the best cars in the world. They would not rehire anyone from management.

I am going to keep my eye on the Buick Enclave.
last edited: 1/03/08 9:50:29 PM”

“Phil I gotta give it to ya, you are one die-hard hombre! That counts fer something! I've owned, and will never own again a big-3 car. Americans simply cannot compete with them Japs. We have a 98 Sienna, 02 Forester, and 07 Odyssey, with the Sienna now at 280k. Them Japs are so good at design, quality, and business that I just want to own a few and bring them home just pet them.

EarthnSky, you must be on crack to thank that a dang Malibu can compete with a Japcar!
But, I come from the mountains, with family that scream I'm unpatriotic for not buying chevy and fords. All I say is that when I have money to throw in the trash, then I'll agree with them wholeheartedly.”

“My wife got a new Volvo S40 right after Ford bought them, worse car we have ever owned.

This is one thing that pisses me off. The Big 3 are in such bad shape but they keep buying every company that's not nailed down and then they screw them up until they're as bad as the parent company. Volvo used to be one of the gold standards. Same with Mazda before GM bought them. Now they aren't nearly what they used to be.”

“"I wish GM would have continued with their electric vehicle."
- BowlderMan

They have resurrected that project and plan on selling the Chevy Volt in a few years. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=124157”

“Buy a swiss car (Smart) and pimp it up american style. Doesn't this look sweet? Like a Baby-Hummer?



”

“My 07 Chevy Silverado (assembled in Oshawa, Ont., they have unions there, and socialized medicine too which is good for GM) seems to be a winner. Replaced a Ford Ranger that was good for 150k miles but after the engine blew up 3x in the next 10k it was time for a new one. Liked the Chevy dealer a lot better than the Ford too. And the full size Chevy gets better mileage than the Ranger too. ???

With so many dealers consolidating seems like picking the dealer is about as important as the car nowadays. No user-serviceable parts inside, as they used to say on radios. :)”

“Most people I see driving Buicks are barely kickin' it!”
kleetn
4:15:13 PM
1/03/08

GEEZER CAR!

"Then who the heck bought all those big SUVs in the past 25 years?"
Nonconformist

It's mostly marketing, and that's what the U.S. makers have always counted on.
They build whatever they think the public should have and then leave it up to the sales force to move the product.........in large part.

Trophy wives drive a lot of "what is hip"..........GIANT SUV's.
Then there are people who actually need such a vehicle................like Yoopers and Vermonsters..............for zample.”

“i saw a british show on discovery channel (i think) were they tested the reliability of the original toyota trucks (which by the way have the record for mileage for personal vehicles)...they did all kinds of things to it and let a mechanic try to get it started again...he was only allowed to have a screw driver, adjustable wrench, pliers, hammer and a new battery...i can't remember everything they did to it but two of them were soaking it completely submerged in the ocean for 24 hours and putting it on top of a 15ish story building and blowing the building up...the mechanic was able to get it started every time”

“Replaced a Ford Ranger that was good for 150k miles but after the engine blew up 3x in the next 10k it was time for a new one.

that's the kicker right there...i don't know why it is but it seems that when most of the american cars hit 100k-150k things start going wrong...my wife an i's first car as a married cople was a camry we put 260k...we only got rid of it cause the water pump went out and to replace it on those cars you had to remove the engine which was gonna cost way more than the car was worth”

“My wife's Honda Civic also blew up at 150k. However, she rarely bothered changing oil, and the Ranger had Amsoil most of its life. ???

But the Civic wasn't worth putting another engine in, we thought it was a good idea to put the Ford remanufactured engine in the Ranger until it blew up twice more!”

“My wife brought into our marriage her Pontiac Firebird, which thank God her father bought the extended 70k mile warranty, because nearly every dang thang on the car was replaced in that time. So at about 130 miles after 70k the car needed some serious brakework, (uh, calipers I think they said, which was gonna be costly). I'm trying to argue gimme my calipers free please, heyallfire it's only a wee bit beyond 70k, and the dealer says to me Now Mr Ray your car IS getting old with these miles....
I 'bout blew my gasket, and yelled that a dealer wouldn't be telling me that at Toyota or Honda!!! That was my last American car. They gimme the repair, yaknow, the squeaky wheel got the grease. After repairs, we sold it, poor turkey.”

“NA, I didn't know you lived accross the street from me? They have one of those and the same story.”

“The irony here is that Toyota is now making HUGE trucks that guzzle gas too. They captured market share by consistently producing quality, fuel efficient vehicles. Even though GM, Ford and Chrysler are making some excellent cars and trucks now, the public perception lags and so they suffer. It will take years to recover, if they can. The Big 3 will have to shrink further and the unions will have to make concessions.

As someone mentioned, Toyota has recently had some quality problems. However, the public trusts them.”

“Go the distance!”

“Hopefully Toyota doesn't follow the same path that SONY did. I've yet to have a SONY product last me more than a year or two. At one time their products were top notch.”

“I finally broke down and put a new starter on the Mighty Mighty Tacoma over the weekend. It went out about 2.5 years ago, but there was a strong breeze coming from Alabama, and I was able to jerry rig it enough to continue using it until now.

That's
*one tuneup
*one starter
*one thermostat
(and counting)
at 270,000 miles and counting”

“gojo - sounds like the most money you ever had to spend on the thing was when it got broken into at Chinabee, or was it Adams Gap, a several years back.”

“hey gojo, where you able to put that in yourself or did you have to have it put in?...my only beef with toys i've owned in the past is they weren't as easy to work on as the americans and i'm a bit of a self mechanic”