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Toyota #2 in US Sales, Ford #3
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“The future of the United Auto Workers union is at stake!”
“haha, all of a sudden pelosi and read are all about wanting to know exactly how the automakers plan to be successful and how they will pay it back. back when they thought they could just scoop up the money from the $700 billion bailout they didn't give a #&%!$. But now that its coming out of the $25 billion they approved to bribe the automakers into building green cars they are very protective of the cash.”
“All this bleating from conservatives about the people trying to salvage something from the mess they've made.
Still refusing to man up and take some responsibility I see boys.”
“Y2 still bleating the same o' same o'?
“I am more willing than you. let the market and the economy correct itself. On average, those who sacrifice and work at staying afloat will come out ok. Those that don't, won't”
“They weren't properly house trained.”
“Toyota and Ford decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River.
Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
BUT on the big day, Toyota won by a mile.
Ford, tired and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was Toyota had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while Ford had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing. So Ford hired a consulting company referred to them by the US Government and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
The consultants advised that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. To prevent another loss to Toyota, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized into 3 steering supervisors, 1 area steering superintendents, 1 publicity manager, 1 HR diversity coordinator, 1 union rep, and a rower.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the "Rowing Team Quality First Program", with a lunch and a free company pen for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and performance-tied bonuses but that decision was held up in committee.
BUT the next year Toyota won by two miles.
Humiliated, Ford laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment.
The money from all sales and all forecasted moneys saved from further competition was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.
last edited: 11/21/08 5:02:47 PM”
“Stovie - I've seen versions of that before...kinda scary because there is some truth to it.
Also a good analogy for our state university system here. The rate of growth of Managerial Personnel positions is double the rate of growth of enrollments.”
“same goes for our highway departments”
“Growth is the problem. Don't say it.”
“MBA's killed America.”
Big 3 Deserves This....
Long story short.....More than 25 years ago...when my family first took over a business...there was a young girl who worked for us...her father worked at GM.
During summer vacation she went to work for GM as a substitute worker (Have to be recommended by someone working there already) for 2 months. At that time the minimum wage was about $4.00/hr Can......The first day she started working there she was already paid $23.00Can/hr....this was for someone who had completely no mechanical knowledge or experience!!!! Of course she (And other newbies) had a few days of classes (Paid by GM) on safety, proper clothing and how to use the tools etc. She sat on a stool at an assembly line and racheted 4 bolts on an engine that came by every 10 minutes or so. In between the time she read a newspaper or some magazines.....
So, imagine what a regular employee is getting after a few years of work...with the union behind them. Of course the president, vice president and all the CEO`s etc. are getting even more $$$$$$$”
“I thought Romney was a poor governor - and I don't trust him. But he may be right about the auto industry. I'm afraid a bailoutd will be a recipe for a long slow and expensive slide into oblivion. The UAW gets unfairly scape-goated by some, but there need to be some drastic changes in work rules and remuneration.
I'd like to see a path to the necessary reorganization without bankruptcy reorganization, but I don't know enough to say if there is one.”
“What do you mean when you say you don't trust him?”
“Here's what's going to happen. Obama will take office, hand the big three tons of money. The economy will still go downhill. GM, F, C will all continue to produce overpriced unreliable vehicles that get crappy MPG and America will not buy them. In one year they will be where they are now, and ask for more money--only after dozens of AIG incidents where abuse of the money is reported to the media 100x more than AIG.
Hopefully the second time around there is nothing left in the reserve and one of them goes belly up, the other two pick up the pieces and survive. If the UAW is smart they will start encouraging their people to retool and get educations so they will be better equipped to find jobs, but this won't happen and it will be the workers fault as well as the UAW.
I don't want them to have my tax money and they shouldn't have it. We live in a capitalist society. The market decides who lives and dies and the market has decided it's time for one major automaker to go and it's gonna be one of the automakers who treats their customers like crap, builds junk that gets low mpg--one of the big 3. Sayonara”
“how are they getting any tax money? these are loan guarantees... not loans. wouldn't that mean that the only way the government would pay out is if the auto companies defaulted on the loans?
that's what's killing the auto companies... the cost of credit default-swaps (that imploded and took the economy with it). they can't get their debt guaranteed so nobody will lend them money.”
“NASCAR is the most popular sport in this country, yet baseball still is the only sport with an antitrust exemption.LOL”
“lol, no one will lend them money because they suck as profitable companies. They were in trouble long before the credit crunch. All that has done is exposed it.”
Sure, screw the management as much as they deserve but try not to freak out. The anecdotes and personal vendettas make for interesting reading, but no one would throw millions of Americans out of work based on that sort of thing. No one sane, anyway.
I still find it interesting how some people who never heard of a merger/acquisition they didn't like suddenly raise hell when the resulting monstrosities are "too big to fail". Is anti-trust still a despicable concept?
There's a parallel in agriculture. I hear that so many native grains are dying out because they're supplanted worldwide by some new wonder hybrids from Monsanto or somesuch. Seed banks are scrambling to save examples before they are permanently lost.
The potential downside is quite large, though, because if only a few variants gain worldwide dominance for economic reasons and then a disease appears that the resulting near-monoculture is vulnerable to, you risk worldwide famine.
Too big to fail, indeed.
“You forgot to throw in a few Latin phrases.”
“It's always the fault of the rich. Keeps things simpler.”
et cum spiritu tuo
last edited: 11/23/08 11:12:54 AM”
Hey, I was just about to post that pic of Arte Johnson in his 'Wolfgang' getup before you pulled that edit!
“I didn't want to offend anyone upon whom that shoe might fit.
Or upon whom The Foo might schit.”
“I think he drives a Messerschmitt.”
“2007 Toyota Yaris turning over 300,000 miles
The owner says nothing but regular maintenance has been done and he has experienced zero failures.”
“Damn! That's a lot of miles, and now Toyota has passed GM officially as #1 in sales.”
“Guy says he changes his oil every 5k miles, that's what I go by. I change my oil every 5k, and change the air filter every 10k, it's easy to keep track that way.
My '99 Toyota Sienna is about to hit 200k. Right now tho I've got a teeny oil drip, guess it's time to change the gasket. I've needed to change my belt like forever, so it's now time to get me a tune-up, which I've prolly needed forever too.”
“Okay I have been hearing some HILARIOUS stuff about Toyota and the Gas Pedal Recall.
Shall we delve back in the annals of history and look at one of the BIG THREE...FORD.
Starting in 1992 and running through 2002 the models with Cruise Control began showing a wierd proclivity to burst into flames. The cause was suspected in the Disconnect which is on the same location as the Master Cyl for the Brakes.
thats right 10 years of evidence. And Ford issued some half hearted recalls. This was not just gas pedals sticking, but houses burned, people were injured. 13 Wrongful Death actions are pending.
Now how did FORD handle it?
Well in 2004 we began to be rotated through investigations classes which spent 3 full days on covering how to handle the evidence of a Ford Fire. Apparently FORD even admitted it was easier to fight each case than do a recall.
Then in 2007 a recall was issued.
So Ray THEHOOD don't go telling me how HORRIBLE Toyota has been.”
“So far it seems to be american parts. Firestone # 3, hehe.
last edited: 2/05/10 12:31:06 PM”
“hell, I don't really care about the recall. I mean, I'll take my car in when I get the letter for sure, but I'm damn happy with my Toyota. I'd rather they recall it then NOT recall it, which is what Ford did with my faulty fuel pump that caused my car to more or less stop accelerating whenever the tank was below half-full (which was a real hoot getting on the freeway, let me tell you).
By the time they DID recall it, I'd already replaced it at a significant cost, which Ford, of course, refused to repay. I brought it to the dealer several times beforehand because of this problem, and each time the dealer said "nothing's wrong"”
“Agreed, Pepsi, I have been really impressed at HOW Toyota has jumped up on this. Within a few months they were on top of it.”
“same thing with the rust problem in the tecomas....several people got entire new frames, a $10,000+ repair, on older model trucks”
“Toyota takes action like with this recall or the unheard of buying the rusted Tacoma's back--how many rusted Fords or Dodges are there on the road? The recall only affects cars with over 35K on them and is very rare, only 2000 cases so far out of 2.3million sold. When I was in high school I got stuck in an 89 Ford Escort with the pedal stuck to the floor, never saw a recall for that.
I'll stick with my Honda and Toyotas, I have over 460,000 miles over 4 of them and not one single visit to the repair shop (except this and one recall on another-non lethal). All of them combined have had fewer problems than any one of my GM, Ford, or Chrysler vehicles.
Not to mention my truck has 80% domestic parts content vs. a Dodge Ram which has 53%. My truck supports more American workers. The AALA stickers on the frame can't change the fact that other "American" vehicles have almost no American parts and that they aren't assembled in the US like my truck is 100%.
Of course Government Motors is seizing the opportunity to spend millions of taxpayer dollars on special money for Toyota owners who switch.”
“yeah, and to issue such a massive recall when relatively few cars are actually showing symptoms of this issue... that's pretty cool”
“Toyota bought back my '08 Tacoma for $8000 and it was only good for 2K on a trade-in. The rust was superficial on the frame, but the man said 'any' rust.”
“Just look at both how China and Japan treat their CEO's, and what they expect from them. Compare that to us, night and day difference!
I still have family who say it's un-American not to buy from the big 3. I love them of course, but that don't change the fact that they are idiot fools.”
They don't make 'em like the used to..................thank goodness.”
“toyota jumping all over it quickly? Bullshyt. As people were dying in their Toyotas they were saying, "OK, we'll recall the floor mats." knowing full well that was not the cause.”
“The floor mats were the problem in my wifes Sequoia. She took them out and solved her problem, but hers is 2003 that is not included in the recall.
Toyota has never been known for good customer service, Dealer wise that is.
last edited: 2/06/10 10:33:37 AM”
“The Toyota earthquake sure took out what happened in Haiti, eh?
Anyone have a victim count for the two?”
“I've had top notch service from the Toyota dealer up here.”
“How about those Mitsubishi A6M2 Model 21s?”
“yes, victim count of 19 versus 200k. I heard on the radio this morning that you're 30x more likely to be struck by lightning than to be killed from a stuck gas pedal in a Toyota.”
“Resale value troubles now. Heard a report on the radio this morning of people trying to trade their Toyota in on something else and the dealer not taking it.”
“Trade War! Wait till you hear all the reasons for no tariffs from the big internationals. This country is going to be a dangerous place to live here very soon.”
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