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Message to my NON-rent-paying daughter
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“Had a real cold bulletin from my daughter today, here's how I dealt with it. I bulletined it back on myspace and posted it as a comment for all of her friends to read. They will either think I'm a #&%!$ or ErinAnne's spoiled. Frankly I don't care because I know that ErinAnne is acting quite the spoiled little girl. I am feeling somewhat bit**y tonight I guess. You would if you got to open this one.
RE: damn (my daughters bulletin)
Let us take a good look at my daughter's recent bulletin, it's just a little below this.
Remember, my daughter is 18 years old now and will be 19 next month; she makes $9.00 dollars an hour. I make $9.59 an hour, but I pay over $340 dollars a month in benefits, (some of which benefit her), so in actuallity, her take home pay is larger than mine. If I put my WHOLE paycheck into the pot, surely she can put the small sum in I am asking for.
ErinAnne is angry because I am asking her to pay us $100 dollars a month for rent. She also does not want to do any chores around the house. She has never done chores around the house much anyway, so I told her the same thing I told my sons when they were 18, "if you pay double the rent, you don't have to do any chores". She thinks I am a terrible horrible no good very bad mom.
----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------
From: ♥ ErinAnne
Date: Mar 2, 2007 5:18 PM
everything freakin sucks ass!
my parents suck
a bunch of hypocrits who just want my money so they can spend it all on alcohol and cigarettes #&%!$ THAT!
So we suck, do we? Not half as much as the girl who wants us to pay for ALL OF HER:
GAS & ELECTRICITY
AND HOSPITAL VISITS, (over $3000 dollars last year) I am deep in debt on this and paying interest to a bill collector at this moment
MEDICATIONS, (over $400 dollars last year)
SHE ALSO INSISTS THAT WE DRIVE HER EVERYWHERE, college 3x a week, there and home, back again, home again, we are talking about at least 42 extra miles each week right there; work when it's raining, movies to meet friends, etc etc, but does not have enough money for gas. She has a learners permit, but will not pay for the insurance so that we can teach her to drive so that she can get a license and buy her own car.
She won't set up rides with her friends because she doesn't want to inconvience herself or them or pay gas money to them. But it's ok to inconvenience or not pay us. She even saw someone she knows going to college the same night, but she refuses to call them.
She also has free use of the computer and internet while she is here. She has free use of the printer, ink and paper.
ErinAnne CAN buy CLOTHING, MOVIE TICKETS, CONCERT TICKETS, DINNERS OUT w/FRIENDS, PARTIES w/ALCHOHOL of her own even though SHE IS UNDERAGE. VIDEOS, STARBUCKS, SHOES, she bought a NEW MOUNTAIN BIKE quite recently. pays RACE ENTRANCE FEES.
Whatever ErinAnne wants, ErinAnne gets.
What should I do? Is $100 or $200 a month to much to ask for rent? I DON'T THINK SO!
Is it time for me to throw her out of the house? I did do this to Chris. Steve Jr finally got a clue and left after a few months. And they landed on their feet.
I and my brother and my sister, we all left shortly after we turned 18. We knew better than to ask our parents to support us after we came of age and had jobs. When did kids begin to think we owed them a living after childhood? Sorry, we don't!”
“She should pay !!! I had the same problem with one of my daughters. I actualy didn't need the money but she did not want to go to College and wanted to work so I charged her RENT. She was ppppppppppeeddddddddd but I knew what was best for her so her temporary attitude was not going to chang my mind.
After approx a year of paying rent, buying her own gas, insurance for her car she decides to move in with another friend and they share the cost of an apartment,heheh that didn't last long she was back home, and shortly after that ask me if college was still on the table, Yep I said and off she went.
Pamela , we love our children more than we love ourselves and thats makes it easy to give them comfort and freedom. Your doing the right thing in asking her to share the load. One of the best lessons in life is to know how to pay your own way through life.
When I was 9 years old I began a small lawn business and used my Dad's push mower and Gas. I had 2 lawns the first year and had progressed to 4 the next year, that's when my Dad told me I had to buy my own mower and gas, man was I ticked off, so I got to use my Dad'd mower and gas for the next 2 cuttings and he and I went off to buy me a new mower and gas can full of gas. I made lots of money that year and never forgot what mt Dad was teaching about money and the cost of having it, making it, and saving it. I got over being ticked at my Dad and continued to Love him as a son should.
When I was 16 years of age I worked part time at a Volvo car dealer as a LOT BOY, man I was making real money now and I worked there for 5 years, when I turned 16 and began to drive a car my Dad started to charge me RENT and again I was pissed off and I also had to pay half of the Insurance and buy my own Gas, Tires. That cut into my dough so much I began charging my friends gas money iffin I was going to pick them up and go out. Another lesson I learned from my Dad. There are no free rides out there.
I had a scholarship to play Baseball at the University of Maryland Baltimore campus so off I went. I was hurt playing FOOTBALL and lost my side vision for several months so Baseball was out of the Question. I didn't want to continue a college career and Joined the Military after regaining my complete Vision and healed from my Football Injuries. MY DAD then give me back all that rent money I had given to my Mother for when I was 16, 17,18 when in High school, They had put all that Rent money into a saving account drawing minimum interest. I remember asking my MOM what the money was for, and she replied Dad and I put all the rent money give into a savings and thought you may need it while in the Military, Man I was floored, hammered and tears run dowm my eyes. I huged my Mother and learned another lesson. Saving money for another day. My parents I thought back in the days, was hard and give me choices and made demands that pissed me off but in the End I became finacially effecient and learned many lessons about the real world and the cost. I continue to Love them Both.
last edited: 3/03/07 6:32:26 AM”
Dang Erin Ann...No Can Do Honey...
“I don't have the Gas to drive you...TAKE THE MOUNTAIN BIKE!
Laundry Dirty? WASH IT!
Room smells? CLOSE THE DOOR you're stinking up the house..(and CLEAN IT!)
You entered a Race?..(How are you going to get there?)
Videos? Cool! you used to have a DVD Player, but we had to HOCK it to pay medical bills, (SORRY!)
Internet? oh, dang, we PASSWORDED it...
Ink and paper for the printer? (FRESH OUT!...keep a ream hidden!)
Dpendant on the internet, Shut off the phone as a landline, go digital cell (FOR YOU ONLY)...ya know, we have bills to pay....
I believe she will leave on her own....
Married with a UNEMPLOYED 17 YR OLD Son....
with much the same attitude (He keeps it hidden since I throttled him for raising a hand to his mom in anger).”
“Ok, I am feeling even better now! Am I still ok if she is paying for her own college, (jr college)? There is no way I could ever pay for any of my kids to go to college. My oldest son has been working fulltime, carrying a full course load and paying for his own college for years. I did pay for her to go to college night courses when she was in high school, books too; she had to have the credits because she screwed around and was 60 credits short of graduating.
p.s. we don't wash her laundry anymore, we have been simply providing quarters and soap and dryer sheets. of course she thinks we are awful for not washing it.
p.p.s. she is leaning on all of our fears/guilts with the night college needing a ride thing. she was attacked last fall at the bus stop. she fought him off and got away, the cops caught him that night. we have asked her to ride the bus for the day trip and we would pick her up at night, but she refuses and says we are cruel to ask. the only reason i won't buy it is because i see her walk around at night everywhere else.
last edited: 3/03/07 6:48:12 AM”
“If she is living at Home and you are struggling in paying the bills, yep she pays. Your a Family and when a family sticks together and share the load , a great lesson will be learned, maybe not known now but will be later on in life.”
“as a policy I dont charge rent untill they are over 18 and out of school...
as to the rest your daughter is a grown adult and it is time for her to take care of herself. It was time to quit cleaning up after her several years ago and now it is time for her to learn how to safely get around town on her own.
tell her she is right and she doesnt have to pay rent but you now expect her to act like an adult.....”
“ErinAnn already knows about paying her own way, she won't ask for rides from friends BECAUSE SHE KNOWS SHE WILL BE ASKED TO CHIP IN...
Me thinks she will buy her own soap and dryer sheets, even supply her own quarters once her friends start edging away from the smell....
So she rides the bike...she is not standing still at a bus stop waiting on a bus...and take a hint from your oldest son, he's paying for a full load AND supporting himself to boot...
Have you considered asking your son to explain things to your daughter?...once these lessons are learned, they tend to be taken to heart....sounds like he'd be a non sympathetic instructor, and proof that it's NOT just PARENTS that expect you to pay your own way.
last edited: 3/03/07 7:14:58 AM”
“I paid rent when I lived at home. It wasn't any $100/month either. I paid my folks $225/month in 1992. I didn't complain about it either and I helped out with cleaning. I had already moved out and moved back by 19, and realized from that 3/4 year living in a house in Detroit how much my folks do/did for me. Gave me a quick wake up call on how to trat my parents.
I do have to tell you that when I moved out finally (they told me I could move back in once and when I left again it was for good) my dad handed me an envelope with half of my rent money in it to get started. That was a nice surprise.”
“hmmm twignut will be 19 on the 24th.
full time job
I never thought to ask for money. she does kick in food money and gas money and will lend us maney if we ask.
she opened up a bank account and saving and i would rather the money go into it.
(unless WE NEED it) LOL :)”
“Tell her you love her but right now you don't LIKE her very much and respect her less...if she keeps complaining she can go find another place to live...it's your house so you get to make the rules. When she has her own place then SHE can make the rules. Yes, she'll hate you but she'll get over it...she's afraid she can't handle the real world which is why she's not trying to do it...my mother told me at 18 it was time for me to go live my own life...they did pay for me to go to university but the day I dropped out was the day I began supporting myself. It's a tough world...she's no longer a child so she gets to take responsibility for herself...tough love...”
“Good move posting on her myspace.”
Not posting it openly on myspace is the only thing I would have done differently. But that's me.”
“Yesterday I spent $80, a decent t-shirt and some knuckle skin on my son's car that I bought & fixed up and he tore up. When I asked him to change the oil, which I got from the store and paid for myself, while I worked on other stuff, he went upstairs and took a nap.
I know what you mean.”
Raising Children To Adults
“Raising a child to become what is needed as a adult is something that is done during the young years of a childs life, not when they turn a certain age. It appears that your daughter is doing what she was taught. In her years as a youngster. It is going to be very hard for you to reach her the way you are going about it now. If you continue to throw stones at each other, your both going to get hurt. These matters need to be private. Advice is good, but what everybody else has done or went though themselves is their own personal progress. Your problem with your daughter is not like what these others have went though. Are you willing to lead by example with love and kindness. Forgiviness would really be better today than anything else. We all at times struggle with problems that seem to be more than we can handle. Help is good, but what I think that would work for you might just not at all. Good luck with the Grand Kids,”
“I don't think Pamela has done anything inappropriate here. And it doesn't sound like she and her daughter have a bad relationship just because they've blown up at each other. Public school and t.v. can undo all the good parents do when the kids are young. I was the best dad in the world until my kids were 16.
We'll be here to offer encouragement when your kids are teenagers, Waterdog.”
““I don't think Pamela has done anything inappropriate here.
This is not a place where dirty laundry is likely to be aired in public. I have learned much from other people, if nothing more than an awareness I am not alone. It helps to run things past other people. Knowing that others have gone through the same things and come out alright in the end can be very helpful.”
“Thank you toejam, as I have many. Some are already adults.”
“Pam, I know I dont have kids, but, I wouldnt of aired it openly either. That only opens the door for more anger.
last edited: 3/03/07 10:14:47 AM”
“Pamela, the posting on Myspace may be debatable although I note that was her choice of forum, not yours...sort of) but the message is dead-on accurate, reasonable, and fair.
Maple, if you don't need the money, secretly put it away in a separate account and give it back when she moves out...for a first month's rent and security deposit, or whatever.”
“I am not there yet, but I figure as long as my kids are in college full time then I am Mr. Moneybags. If they switch their focus from college to working and having fun. Then my job as the nurturer and provider is now a perk for them and not a responsibility on my part. They can start paying rent and I will help them out financially if I think they are trying hard and just need a boost.”
I have two daughters, 18 and 19 years old. My daughter who is nineteen, still officially lives at home but stays most times in SF for school as the commute on Bart would add three hours to her day and some of her classes end late. She began working in her senior year and saved her money. When she was on summer break from school, she would get a job to supplement her student loans. She does not drive, as she is afraid even though I sent her to driving classes, so she is dependent on public transportation. She has no problem with the bus or Bart.
My 18 year old is not like her at all. She worked for a short period of time during Christmas but quit after the holiday because it was too bothersome for her. She enrolled in school and dropped all but one class which she ended up failing. She did not enroll in this semester and is not working. She spends her days waiting for her friends to get out of class and then goes and ‘hangs out’. We bought her a car, we pay the insurance and maintenance costs. She hates the car and has completely destroyed it and can not understand why we won’t buy a new one. I have explained that if she doesn’t get enrolled for next semester she no longer has health insurance. Oh well, sucks to be me, she says.
I give both girls $75 a month just because – it goes into their savings. I can afford it now, but who knows when/if I lose this job, I will not. My older daughter saves the money, my younger one lives off of it and can not wait until the first when she gets more. I know I am not doing what I should as a parent for her so she can be a contributing member of society but that is another story. Both my daughters have my space and I see the bulletins my daughter writes but I would never publicly undress her as that only aggravates the situation. If my daughter complains about me, and she has, then when her friends meet me, they tell her she is wrong. They are her conscious and have helped her see the light on many occasions.
I am telling you this because at least your daughter goes to school and is working. You have and are doing the right thing for your daughter by teaching her to be responsible.”
“Pamela, you don't sound unreasonable here.
Asking for some rent or help seems reasonable. Our children started doing their own laundry in junior high school. We basically said as long as they were doing good in school and working part time to pay for their own spending money, we would support them. Fortunately, state college was less expensive than their K-12 private education. I must admit, however, we did not charge rent after they graduated and before they left home.
Just an observation, but anything you post on MySpace you can remove or edit. Anything you post on someone else's forum could be nearly permanent.”
“I guess I'll add a few comments.
I worked a part-time job in high school. I was given an old car by my grandpa and paid the insurance, gas, etc. for it. Some people think this might have helped me prepare for the real world, but I don't really think it did. When I turned 18 I thought I knew it all and went out on my own, quickly realizing I did not know what money was.
That being said, I suggest you show your daughter exactly how much it costs to simply "live." All of those things you provide for her, such as printer ink, toothpaste, toilet paper, etc, etc. seem like small costs when you don't realize how quickly they add up. I remember going to the grocery store once soon after leaving my parents house and spending over $100, barely leaving with any food. Wow, I was po'd.
If you start to show her how these things actually do cost money, I think she will be better off for it, and the resentment should wear off. She *should* start to see that she's actually getting a pretty good deal. $25 a week? Gimme a break. If you show her these things and she still doesn't get it, send her out to the real world for a while to see, then accept her back with the new attitude she'll have.”
“I'm not a parent so what I say may not carry much weight but just in general I'd make sure to discuss this in person and not put it on your Myspace page.
I don't think you are being unreasonable. My sister in law's dad started charging her rent when she turned 16. It wasn't much but she had to get a part time job to pay it. when she left home at 19 she was surprised to find her father giving her a check for three years worth of rent she had paid. It gave her a nice little sum to get started on her own and it taught her an invaluable lesson on providing for herself.”
“I firmly believe that everyone needs a safe place to be a jerk. But safe does not mean consequence free. My kids have railed at me up one side and down the other. Whether I deserved it or not. Each time I have allowed them to have their say, and then depending on how mature and grown up I felt at the time, I either gave it back full bore... or explained the facts of life and offered them the various legal alternatives which were appropriate to the situation. While I have never actually told them to call child services if they feel like they have been wronged I knw they know there was that option. In every case so far... they have returned and acknowledged their "jerkdom" usually coupled with an apology from me if I fired back in anger. That is because even though they were a jerk... the did it in a safe place where they would conticnue to be loved and accepted and forgiven and then be able to move on. I got three great kids. Two are out of the house and feel free to call when they want advice r opinions. One is paying his own way through college. One is in the air force and the third is still trying to find a life direction.
I am so proud of all of them and try my darnedest to let them know that.
They done good.”
“You sound like a great dad Rev. A friend of mine had a wild 17 year old daughter who was pitching a fit. My friend said, "OK, if you want to act like a child I'll treat you like a child.". She grabbed her daughter, put her over her knee and lit her ass up. The daughter called children services and a case worker came out to investigate. My friend told her exactly what happened. The case worker said, "Good for you!", gathered up her stuff and left.”
“Thank you all for everything! I needed to hear that other people charged their kids rent. We've been discussing this in the home this morning as my two oldest son's are here this morning. Chris told Erin the rent money we were asking was small for what she was getting. He reminded her that he made the deal whereby he did ALL of the housework for several months and paid no rent at all for when he had to give up his apartment last summer and that she could always do that. (By the way, he did a fantastic job of it) He also reminded her that when he did have an apartment he had managed to pay for a vehicle while he was paying rent, gas & electricity, phone, food etc. So he didn't find her agument saving for a car valid. Steve Jr told her that he was paying $500 for rent and $300 for his car and he couldn't see why she would complain about a little $200 dollar rent. I also had one of my myspace friends, an 18 year old, back me up on the rent issue. It REALLY helps to have kids understand the issue!
I am giving thought to the idea of banking her rent money without telling her if she does come around. I am by no means well off enough to do this, but I have lived without her money so far, right? It's a thought.”
“Wouldn't it just be easier to make her buy the cigarettes and alcohol directly and bring it home for you?”
“my parents made me pay room and board after i got out of high school in 1971. i think it was $10.00 a week, i worked part time.
my brother on the other hand was alsosuppose to pay rent but always had an excuse and my parents never made him pay up! big mistake on their part, my brother has never had any responsibility with money, has no job, is 57 and lives at home mooching off mom and dad. he paid one month of child support and the x-wife didn't want to persue making him pay because she new it would do no good.
i on the other had turned into a resposible adult.
my daughter rents a house from us and is always late with the money and lives from pay check to pay check. brett who lives at home and will soon be 21 already has a cd in the bank, a saving account and pays his bills on time. as long as he is in school and working part time we don't charge him rent and we pay for his car insurance. he is planning on getting a phd and may be at home for another 5 years. but if he was working full time he would be, not in school then he would be paying rent and his own car expensies.”
“I was on my own after I graduated from High School. Nothing to debate.”
“Bm, me too. I was on my own even before I was a senior in highschool.”
“If ya need to get rid of your daughter, I know a Mormon that could marry her too.”
“Im on my own and am paying for college. I moved away to work play and live and am returning to finish college this summer.
Thankfully, my car is paid for. But trying to save for college is not easy paying for food, rent, insurance, bills, a girlfriend, and previous student loans.
My loan for last semester was $10,000
Time to do it all over again.
I still cringe when I pay my $600/month rent for my little apartment though.
Life is good nonetheless!”
“I don't mean to be mean but there is a word in the dictionary to use with your daughter and it is NO!!!
My God! She insists that you drive her everywhere...HUH!!!??? NO!
You provide her quarters and soap and dryer sheets and she's mad....HUH!!!!??? NO!
COME ON! I must go now I am mad too now!”
“Thats what I was thinking Tango....
the word NO is a very effective thing :)”
“the word NO is a very effective thing :)”
Only if you know how to use it. Not every one is fluent in its use.”
“I paid rent the day I turned 18, $100 a month in 1985 and I was still in high school. If I didn't do my laundry I didn't have clean clothes to wear. If I didn't have the cash for gas, I had to ride the bus to school and bum a ride to work. I bought all my clothes, "toys", tapes (pre cd, remember those days?), paid for all my dates, ect..If my room wasn't clean, I wasn't allowed to go out or do things on the weekends. Grades, attitude, chores, and work all played into what I could and could not do.
At the time I thought my Mom (a single parrent) was the dumbest human being on earth so I moved in with a friend. That lasted for about 3 months and in that time my Mom became extreemly smart (it's all perception) and I moved back home. All kids will "get it" but some take more time than others but if thrust into positions of discomfort it is only a matter of time until they figure out that it sucks and do something about it. TURN UP THE HEAT!!!!”
“The rules at my house are simple: do good in school, be a good and moral person and be a productive member of the household. If all these things are done, life is good! They can go to camp, the movies, get extra spending money, etc. If not, the wallet clamps shut. I refuse to subsidize my kids lifestyle if they don't follow these rules.
The world does not owe anyone a living. You have to work for what you get. However, I will gladly pay for my kids to go to college and their living expenses while there, as long as they are making the grade. I refuse to let someone sponge off me. No school, no job, no dice!”
“ErinAnne came up with $100 dollars this evening and took my husband and youngest son out to dinner while I was at work. She apologized to us.
I guess her brothers words made a difference. I know it wouldn't have been my words. Now she has a choice between doing her chore or doubling her rent. She also has to pay extra for gas because I just can't afford that. Anytime now I'll have to buy four new tires and get a tune up. She'll be glad I am not making her pay for that.”
“Glad you got some progress with your daughter Pamela.
Families share resources. If you were making three times what you are making, it would be great to give her free rent and help with tuition while she is in school (if she is applying herself) so she can go full time. As it is, you give her cheap rent which is really much less than you spend feeding her and taking care of her other needs. She's got spending money and she's getting a good hand out.
It's great that she is working and going to going to a college, but that doesn't mean you should be in poverty helping her, while she has money to spend on lots of fun things.
Maybe she's mad she doesn't have rich parents”
“I also am glad to see she has begun to "see the light" and I hope this trend keeps getting better for your sake.
Since my son lives with his mother and step-father, 2 half-siblings, 2 adopted siblings, and 2 foster children in their house I set up a payment plan for my son. He gets $5 for cleaning his room on Saturday morning and for his grades he gets: $10 for every A, 5$ for every B, $0 for every C, I take $5 out for every D, I take $10 out for every F, and I will give him $100 for straight A's. His attitude is taken into consideration as well, his mother and I are good friends now and discuss his behavior and how to handle it often. Although he has a promlem lying about things to them, he always tells me everything that he has done so I am grateful that he and I have that trust bond.
last edited: 3/04/07 7:09:44 AM”
“"Maybe she's mad she doesn't have rich parents”
I believe that is a common affliction.
eb, maybe your boy has learned that the truth is not safe with them.
You having his trust is a good thing to hang together on.”
“ERIN GOT AN APARTMENT! I think it'll be hers in 30 days. We are all so excited!”
Don't let Bearmagnet invite himself over to party. ;-)”
“he's married now....
but i ain't!
“Check Pamela's MySpace page.”
eb13 You Sound Like Mark Twain
“This is not an exact quote but he said something like this.
'When I was 15 years old my father was the stupidest man I had ever met but by the time I reached 21 he had learned a bunch.'”
“she'll be back within 4 months - any bets?”
“she has an address!!!! she'll be out next month for sure!!!!
YEAH!!! 3 down, 1 to go!”
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