Can you oppose the war and support the T roops

“exactly SS!

MarkO, the U.S. (or any other country) could bring down all major powers, and they can bring us down. What libs don't get is that point. One person can bring down a nation acting entirely on their own.”

“It takes a paranoid mind to think that any dictator can possibly take over the world.

Some are easily led down the garden path to spending lives and money on foolish foreign military adventures.

But then some make their living off of same and would rather keep the status quo.”

“It takes a paranoid mind to think that any dictator can possibly take over the world.

... or a naive one to think they couldn't.

Luckily, most evil dictators aren't as creative as they need to be, but all it takes is one who is. Marko, when you realize that people are naturally evil, not naturally good, you'll understand. Until then, you're just naive.”

“I know a rhetorical question when I see it.

If you want me to treat it as a straightforward question, then I say the question is irrelevant to this situation or the reasons I gave. In situations that come close, such as Adolf Hitler and Allies - then you oppose said dictator using methods which suit the situation and the risk.
last edited: 11/04/07 5:07:25 PM”

“You magically rendered my question irrelevant by attributing to it variables which were not there? Wow. I'll have to remember that trick.”

“Question: If a dictator is making the rounds to try to slowly take over the world, should we do anything about it? At what point do we intervene?

In situations that come close, such as Adolf Hitler and Allies - then you oppose said dictator using methods which suit the situation and the risk.

Ok, so like what? Again, since you seem to not want to answer the question, at what point do we intervene? What is acceptable? Should we intervene? Where is the proverbial line? You seem unwilling to draw a line in the sand, but very willing to condemn others when they have to make a very real decision.

How do we know if we should intervene? How do we know that enough is enough? What is the criteria? Should we ignore dictators who attack other countries? Should we ignore them if they make threats, and we believe they can follow through? What if they've said "We are going to vaporize you." and we know they are actively building nuclear weapons? At what point do we do something, or never at all? Give something more than "I'd handle it if I were in charge if the situation presented itself."
last edited: 11/04/07 5:15:06 PM”

“When the USA has 4 1/2 % of the influence over the rest of the world- the dictators' takeover will end. Paul 08”

“Wonder how much the US paid for turkey with so much time left before thanksgiving?
Stocks gona have a big sale today- the real world's awake again.
last edited: 11/05/07 6:20:25 AM”

“Unreal Estate 4sale cheap.”

“"Luckily, most evil dictators aren't as creative as they need to be, but all it takes is one who is."
Sarge

Sure Skippy, and weapons grow on trees.

It takes an economy, stupid.”

“I am not sure anyone could take over the world, its never been done before although many people have tried. People will continue trying too no matter that rational people know it can't be done. But if there was ever a place that someone could take over and put one hell of a stranglehold on the rest of the world it would be the oil fields of the middle east. If one megalomaniac were able to unite all those countries under one flag the world would be in a dire situation. It wouldn't have to be done all militarily either. Thankfully, the Saudi sheiks waste billions on personal luxuries. If a true leader ever made it to the top over there they could use the combined power of oil money and religion to do a lot of harm.”

“Again I say, YES is the answer.”

“Hussein couldn't take Iran even with help from the U.S. in the '80s at the peak of his military's capability.
So much for any realistic chance at regioinal hegemony.

Hmmmmm, he did take over Kuwait.

I think Kansas would have put up a better struggle than Kuwait.”

“MarkO, a strong "economy" in your enemy is the Achilles heal. It's simple to crumble an economy, and the larger and stronger it is, the easier to crumble it. I'm not going to pull a New York Times here, but that's the trick. Just because you aren't bright enough to recognize it, don't call me stupid. If you were smart, you wouldn't be so naive as to think the big countries are magically protected by faerries.”

“In 1940 the "World's Industrial War-Making Capacity" was divided roughly:

U.S. 40%
Germany 14%
England 10%
Japan 3.5%
Italy 2.5%
U.S.S.R. (can't remember)

Who lost?

Those numbers are from memory but reasonably close.

No country can sustain war without the economic and industrial oom-pah to back it up.......silly boy.
last edited: 11/05/07 7:32:43 AM”

“What are you talking about? You're missing two key points. (1) a traditional war is not the same as a non-traditional war. I am obviously not talking about traditional warfare. I am talking about reinventing the wheel. Think outside the box. (2) you have to fight a war to win it.”

“Marko, thanks for arguing his point. If the US had not stepped in, who would have won?”

“I'm off ignore again Hyway? What is this, ... monday?”

“You're welcome, HyWay.

That's all past though.

What was Iraq's industrial capacity?
A joke, that's what it was and the "threat" was hyped up with fear-mongering.
Geez, look at who got mongered?
Did it hurt................much?
I've never been mongered.

I don't think you're stupid, Sarge......crazy?
Yes, but not stupid.

My phrase was borrowed from two of your fave politicos..............Willy and Hilly.

"It's the economy, stupid"
"It takes a village"”

“Yeah, both bozo comments.

The reality is this isn't communist Star Trek. Individuals are what matter. Iraq had the capacity to kill millions and destroy our economy. (not that you have to kill millions to destroy an economy)

Killing is easy. What is much tougher is defending others without killing.

You seem to think you need an Industrial Revolution to cook up some death and destruction. All you need is initiative, then you're cooking with elbow grease.”

“sarge, most times I can tell what you are saying by the way people reply to you. These last few posts I couldn't tell if MarkO was responding to me or you so I looked.

MarkO, like I said, I don't believe anyone can take over the world, but a megalomaniac doesn't think the same as us so its quite possible that they might think they could. I know like everyone else knows, that we didn't go into Iraq because of WMD, or because we thought he could take over the world. Those were just the things that allowed the left to do what they saw the population wanted done. Iraq was a destabilizing force in the region and they supported terrorism, not to mention we were already there with a limited military force. To fight terrorism we had to go after countries that support terrorism. Everything pointed at Iraq, and I am glad we went there.”

“These last few posts I couldn't tell if MarkO was responding to me or you so I looked.

I feel violated.”

“I know like everyone else knows, that we didn't go into Iraq because of WMD, or because we thought he could take over the world. Those were just the things that allowed the left to do what they saw the population wanted done. Iraq was a destabilizing force in the region and they supported terrorism, not to mention we were already there with a limited military force. To fight terrorism we had to go after countries that support terrorism. Everything pointed at Iraq, and I am glad we went there.

Plus he was trying to take over other countries (and was succeeding until we stopped him), and he was attacking our military, and he was torturing his own people who had no recourse.”

“"The reality is this isn't communist Star Trek. Individuals are what matter. Iraq had the capacity to kill millions and destroy our economy. (not that you have to kill millions to destroy an economy)"

Whoa!!
You are out to lunch.

It took the U.S. government about eight years to kill an estimated two to three million Vietnamese which included dropping more bombs than were dropped in all of WWII by the U.S. government.
This from the world's richest country with the most powerful military.
That action certainly put Vietnam in the toilet for a while, but even as poor as they were, they bounced back.

Now you're gonna tell me that the U.S. economy can be destroyed and millions killed by a country that couldn't even take their neighbor Iran with help from the Reagan Administration in the '80s.
And how many thousands of miles is it from Iraq to the U.S.??

You have no respect for America's power or ability and not much grasp on reality.
Why do you hate America?”

“It took the U.S. government about eight years to kill an estimated two to three million Vietnamese which included dropping more bombs than were dropped in all of WWII by the U.S. government.

Incorrect premise #1 - the mission of Vietnam has practically ZERO resemblence to a mission of "take down a country".

Now you're gonna tell me that the U.S. economy can be destroyed and millions killed by a country that couldn't even take their neighbor Iran with help from the Reagan Administration in the '80s.

Incorrect premise #2 - Could not is much different than did not. I think this is a key mistake in all of your logic related to this topic. You're confusing what a country does with rules, to what a person or small group of people can do without rules.

You have no respect for America's power or ability and not much grasp on reality.

Incorrect premise #'s 3 and 4 - America can take out anybody. The problem is, anybody can take out America. Ever watch A Bug's Life?

My grip on reality is so much greater than yours, that if we were Indians, I'd be called Stands with Firm Grip, and you'd they'd call you Walks with Greasy Hands.”

“Reality Check:  Saddam wasn't a threat to anyone but his own people.

The previous Bush instigated a failed uprising after Gulf War I (GWI ?) then sat back and watched the reprisals.”

“saddam trained international terrorist. he was a threat”

“Ummm, can anyone tell me ANYTHING good to come out of this administration? I mean, there's a lot of defending here by the right but really not much talking about what has been accomplished.

So, who can tell me what, exactly, this administration has accomplished that has BENEFITED the American people? Huh?”

“We haven't been attacked since 9/11 despite numerous attempts.”

“Positive accomplishments?

You're kidding.

They #&%!$ed up and started a war with a non-threat leaving us exposed to actual threats, and they borrow the money to prosecute the war from Communist China.

        Nothing wrong with that.

”

“Please elaborate, Sarge.”

“no point in telling you anything. We do it day in and day out but you either don't listen or discount it.”

“I am waiting.”

“"saddam trained international terrorist. he was a threat"

Horse doodoo!”

“see, another example of you choosing your truth.”

“OK, so as I thought, no one can tell me anything beneficial derived from this admin.”

“They've lost their minds.”

“Saddam Hussein was roundly condemned by the likes of Osama Bin laden as an infidel.

So who was he "training terrorists" for?

Maybe the I.R.A.(Internal Revenue Service)”

““Please elaborate, Sarge.”

We haven't been attacked successfully since 9/11 despite numerous attempts.”

“So many attempts that they can't be counted, huh?

Oh, and the Dubya Regime knows all the secrets and we must trust them since they can't tell us of all the "attempts".”

“Rosey, there is no point telling you anything. there are threads and threads where people have made those comments but you always turn a blind eye to them.

MarkO, keep your head in the sand. There are plenty of terrorist groups out there that will take whatever aide they can get. Lets not forget that Hussein OPENLY paid the families of suicide bombers $25,000, yet you think he wouldn't give even more support more discretely.”

“Ummm, can anyone tell me ANYTHING good to come out of this administration?

“We haven't been attacked since 9/11 despite numerous attempts.”

“OK, so as I thought, no one can tell me anything beneficial derived from this admin.””

“I'm waiting for the lists and lists of all of the rebuffed terrorist attacks for which this administration has been responsible. Where exactly are they???

Please elaborate.”

“You are correct about the Palistinian bombers, HyWay...........somewhat.

Hussein did not send those bombers but paid their families after the fact as a reward and as pretty much the only thing he could do "against" the U.S. and one of it's allies.
He couldn't even defend his country against frequent air-strikes which were carried out throughout the nineties.
Those suicide bombers were gonna do it whether or not their families got paid.

They weren't working for him but looking for martyrdom and to strike at Israel...............martyr-dumb in my book.

So what you say is correct on it's face but not fully true.
This is a rhetorical thing used by right wing propaganda blow hards quite a lot.............half-truths.”

“And man, doth that wind blow on this thread...”

“There haven't been any rhino stampedes either, Rosey.

Dubya is doing a bang-up job of protecting us.”

“Yeah, no one seems to be really answering my question, so I'll assume their outlook is the same as mine: zippo.”

“

We need t-shirts printed:
Bush, Inc.
"No Rhino Stampedes Since 2001"

”

“Oh, that's right ... you get your news from Katie "Look at my Legs" Couric ...

First of all, Al Q has made NUMEROUS threats and attempts to come over here since 9/11 (all of which you SHOULD have heard about on your favorite nightly news program, if you in fact watch the news), and we don't hear about those attempts afterwards because the terrorists don't even make it over to follow through. Saddam himself is 3 years too late in personally delivering death to the U.S. as he promised 5 years ago. We fight them in Iraq, and elsewhere, so besides all the ones that are stopped right at the source ...

Secondly, that information is classified. Even still, there has been some press about a few cells, notably in Lackawanna, Oregon, California, New York and a few others, who were actively training and scouting. They are ... gone.

The government doesn't release specifics (typically), but it is a well known fact that AlQ has been trying to attack us again since 9/11. Do you think they haven't been rosey? Have they not even tried? Answer me that.
last edited: 11/05/07 12:19:25 PM”

“assume what you want, thats what you always do.

marko, I take it you totally discount anything that concerns Salmon Pak and the alleged terrorist training base there?”