The Power of Prayer

“there's not? that blows. i could get into a religion with unicorns.”

“There are unicorns in the Harry Potter movies. Is that close enough?”

“But Nigal, Noah put ALL of the animals on the arc and that includes unicorns.”

““I think ignorance and misinformation are a key ingredient to those who do nothing but criticize a religion (any religion). People are too lazy to do the leg work to learn about a religion before lambasting it for what they think it is and what it believes

i hope youre not including me in that statement. as i said to wanderer in an email "i have read the bible. i went to church almost every sunday for more than 20 years. i am familiar with their beliefs, altho i am no scholar. if i really did know nothing of them, i would have nothing to be critical of. i have done some outside reading. some more liberal ("rescuing the bible from fundamentalism" by bishop spong), some in defense of more conservative thought ("mere christianity" by cs lewis), some historical ("a history of god" i forget the author but i found out later that it is the textbook for one of the theology classes at a local college), and some other books and articles which ive forgotten the names of.

i suppose what i meant was i intend to read the bible more fully, in depth, and possibly cover-to-cover, although i will more likely start with the gospels.

so, yes, ive done a "little research" and "educated myself".”

“not nearly as much as i would like, however. s-rge sent me two books last christmas, "mere christianity" by cs lewis and "the case for christ". i read the lewis book, and altho i gained some insight into christian thought, i wasnt wholly convinced. a criticism of "the case..." is that the author only interviews those subjects who support the resurrection, salvation, etc, and does not interview anyone with an opposing view. the big deal about both of these books is that they are written by former staunch non-believers who turned believers upon investigation. thats all well and good, but there are also plenty of believers who turned non-believers in this world.

its really amusing how one statement can be such a powderkeg around here. with s-rge incognito, i thought those days were over.

btw, wanderer, you wouldnt happen to be wanderer2, would you? the tone of your posts is very similiar. it has often struck me that w2 is like w off his meds ;-)”

“I was posting to wanderer Crash. Had I been speaking of you I would have said Crash. It was a general observation that has proven true time and again in my personal experiences.”

“Had I been speaking of you I would have said Crash.

seeing as how backhanded compliments and sideways insults, in addition to just plain un-subtle trashing are the M.O. around here, one can never be too sure”

“"Mere Christianity" has a target audience of already believers, as Crash suggests. My reading of C.S. Lewis' works is not to convert or defend, but to inspire, encourage already believers. Check out his "Chronicals of Narnia" series.”

“No, your inability to recognize sarcasm and joking force me to use the altruistic rout with you. I don’t want you to misunderstand my motives or meanings.”

“on a related note nigal, all of the more hard core 'my way or the hellway' type christians i've met have been the most ignorant of their own religion/bible.

not that i pretend to be any kind of theologian, but i had to explain the story of job to one of them, the prodigal son to another guy”

“did anybody else notice that the world became a much worser place once unicorns vanished”

“just one of the first of many species driven to extinction by murdering, species-enslaving humans”

“an interesting point in "the case for christ" was that in allowing non-christians to go to hell, god is "honoring" their decision to reject god, because hell is defined by lewis as separation from god (the burning and gnashing of teeth and all that torture stuff is figurative). i shouldnt say "interesting", because it is really a lame excuse. it would be very rare that a person believed in the reality of god and heaven and hell, and yet rejected god anyways. no, people are not rejecting god himself. they are rejecting the idea of god and salvation because they dont believe it to be true. if a person TRULY rejected god, then a case could be made they get what they deserve in damnation (but if they did reject god, they must have good reason to risk their eternal soul, or they are insane, so either way i believe their actions would either be justified or not accountable), but a truly just god is not going to condemn someone to eternal damnation just for being skeptical”

“sacco, if the bible says that christ is the only way to heaven (and conversely, everyone else goes to hell), wouldn't a knowlegeable (of their own religion) christian also say 'my way or the hellway', since that is what their religion professes?

my point is just b/c the ignorant ones say 'my way of the hellway', doesn't mean that negates that claim

ignorant people say 2+2=4, but that doesn't mean mathematicians who also believe that should be discounted as hack-scientists”

“awwwwww nigal

HUGS

:-P”

“it would be very rare that a person believed in the reality of god and heaven and hell, and yet rejected god anyways. - C!B!

absolutely false premise”

“moonglo, i'm talking about the really hardcores- fire and brimstone freaks who think even other branches of christianity are going to hell.

by 'my way or the hellway', i mean their exact way”

““sacco, if the bible says that christ is the only way to heaven (and conversely, everyone else goes to hell),"

Yeah but only the christian bible says this. The Jewish scriptures do not. Didn't Jesus say something about a prophet can't be validated in his own country or somethin' like that? Of course the christian bible will say this, but does it make it true?

The Quran may say the same thing about it's religion. Is it true too?”

“sacco's point brings up why some people pick on christians. the issue of "being too lazy to do the leg work" and "do a little research" has been brought up in regards to those who criticize religion, but it is even worse in many of those who cling to religion. they listen to what the preacher tells them and swallow it uncritically, they assume everything in scripture really happened, they dont consider less literal interpretations, they dont read outside analyses of the bible unless it reaffirms what they already believe. and then they wonder why theres a backlash when they start telling non-believers how to live. not all of them, i dont wanna use my BROAD BRUSH here”

““on a related note nigal, all of the more hard core 'my way or the hellway' type christians i've met have been the most ignorant of their own religion/bible.

not that i pretend to be any kind of theologian, but i had to explain the story of job to one of them, the prodigal son to another guy”

I think this is because of a lack of knowledge also because they accept the concepts and the tenants of the religion without understanding what they mean or where they came from. I find myself very surprised by how I view Christina churches now days. I was an evangelical conservative Christian who shunned the Catholic ways. Now though it’s the old traditional churches such as the Catholics and the old world orthodox churches. They know where they came from.”

“nigal, "if the bible says that christ ..."

that is a reference to the NT”

“c!b!, you have just characterized christians as sinners. i agree. they need a savior”

““nigal, "if the bible says that christ ..."

that is a reference to the NT”

OK, so the Quran says that Mohamad is G-d's man. True? The Mormons say Joeseph Smith was G-d's prophet so what he says is the final chapter. True?”

“it would be very rare that a person believed in the reality of god and heaven and hell, and yet rejected god anyways. - C!B!

absolutely false premise mo-ns-rge

oh bullcrap. if a person believed TRULY BELIEVED in god and salvation and damnation, 99.9 percent of the time, that person is going to repent. if you really believed in damnation, you would be shtting your pants at the thought of not repenting. anyone who says "well i believed but just went on rejecting god anyway", well, i dont believe that person. they didnt truly believe. then at some point in their life, they came to TRULY believe, and that is when they repented. we can fool ourselves into believing that we believe in something for years. for years i did the same thing”

“so, whats the deal with mormons anyways? what makes a mormon anyway? ive heard theyre christians because they accept christ as savior, believe in the bible, but most mainstream christians reject that claim because they have a few extra books and some weird claims about new prophets and some funky stuff about heaven. what exactly is it that joseph smith prophecized (sp?)?”

“CB, check this out. it should explain everything to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaELJgLWWNw”

“Mormons believe that Jesus' ministry did not end with the end of the NT. They have like an Newer New Testiment that was written by Joseph Smith who transcribed the Book of Mormon from golden tablets.

Here, don't listen to me. Go read from the Mormons themselves.

Momonism 101

I can tell you that Mormons are good, family oriented people who for the most part, practice what they preach.”

“the actor who played napoleon dynamite is a mormon”

“my link kicks nigals links ass BTW”

“NS - sacco says you're a big jerk and you're on ignore.


NS - now sacco says oops, he didn't mean it and still loves you. Hugs.”

“if a person believed TRULY BELIEVED in god and salvation and damnation, 99.9 percent of the time, that person is going to repent c!b!

absolutely not. sin is rampant in mankind. you give man too much credit”

“Oops, wrong thread. Sorry.”

“no one chooses evil for evil's sake. some do evil but think they are doing good. some fall into evil because they are too weak to resist. the osamas and hitlers of this world, even they are not choosing evil. they believe they are doing what is right and just. in their own way, they believe they are following god/goodness/justice.”

“you give man too much credit

christians dont give man enough credit. it is evident in statements like "i dont deserve salvation" etc”

“most people choose evil because they want what they perceive as instant gratification, regardless of negative consequences, not because they think they are doing good. it's about being self-centric instead of god-centric
last edited: 8/24/06 9:46:11 AM”

“sacco - LMFAO! One-o-my favorites. Mormons skeer me.

BTW - anyone know the etymology of "Moron"?

In the past, I've been highly critical of christians, especially catholics. I'm thinking it wasn't so nice, and perhaps wrong, but damn mormons make it difficult!

dayhiker - ?”

“christians dont give man enough credit

credit for what?”

“BM - see the Pluto thread.”

“thanks DH”

“Context, People! Please! I'm very handicapped that way and often need special help! Thank you.

The comments for the SP video are pretty frikken entertaining also. Excuse me now while i explore pluto....”

“LOL to Pluto & beyond! I always thought of Pluto as maybe a type of Klingon to Uranus, Giant dingleberry in the sky.

Now, can someone tell me, again, what "pn3d" means?

My Dr says chemobrain can last for a year or more........”

“I just pray that sacco and nowslimmer see their way to forgiving each other and ending this needless war...”

“nm. apparently I suck at Youtube linking.
last edited: 8/24/06 10:30:32 AM”

“credit for what?

whatever it is that you say im giving them too much credit for!”

“Well that’s not very constructive. Is this the type of tolerance everyone is scream for from the Christians?”

“are you talking about bmag's vid nigal?

actually, i think it does have a pretty constructive message, with a south park delivery”

“most people choose evil because they want what they perceive as instant gratification, regardless of negative consequences

i would agree with that. however, the punishment (eternal damnation) does not fit the crime. we are living in a world where a concrete god does not exist. no one here can KNOW that god exists. you may be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt with a conviction all the way down to your bones, but that is still not the same as KNOWING. if people KNEW of god and damnation and salvation, things would be alot different. but im not saying we would all be perfect or everyone would repent. the compulsive self-gratifiers are not even close to being convinced of their Punishment, let alone KNOW whats in store for them. eternally damning them is beyond unjust”

“This reminds of the scene from Bruce Almighty where Morgan Freeman as God tells Jim Carrey as Bruce that if he figures out how to make someone love him while mainting free will to be sure and pass that trick along.”

“damnation = separation from god

i would say not only does the punishment fit the crime, but the punishment is the crime. there is no better perfect fit

by your logic you can't KNOW anything. as people we have to work under certain basic assumptions. if you want to live your life based on only things you KNOW, as you put it, you would have no reason for believing anything exists, is worth pursuing, or even matters. obviously that characterization of reality doesn't fit with what we all KNOW to be our real nature”