WELL ILL BE A SCOOBIE DOOBIE TODAY ITS 4 20

“"Uh......mari-hoona is not addictive and non-toxic."

Of course. Some addicts (of other things) like to take a zero tolerance 'tude toward all drugs, even ones they never participated in. That's the context my comment was supposed to be in. I was not trying to say that pots users could become addicted; although I could see a person who has an addictive personality who uses pot could become addicted. However, as stated before, that situation has more to do with the person (primary) than the drug (secondary).”

“I was 22 years without drinking and using. At the time it was the right thing for me and for my kids, since I was a single parent during those years. Drinking isn't an issue, the occasional beer tastes good and provides a buzz. Nothing more. I like the feeling from pot and don't have to pee nearly so much. However, I recognize it's not for everyone.”

“Ok, what is the half-life of marijuana? what time will you have to smoke it in order to safely drive your vehicle the next day? How do you feel about your kid's school bus driver smoking it the night before he drives your kid to school at 6am in the morning? THC is stored in fat cells. You haven't smoked in quite awhile, but you decide to go on a diet and start burning off those fat cells. . .

I am perfectly aware that prohibition was a stupid idea that was bound to loose and did. However, alchohol with all of it's rules and regulations is still abused frequently and seemingly uncontrolled when you look at drunk driving statistics. Do you really see a bright future for legalized drug use in this country when you look at how alchohol is being used/abused now?

Don't tell me that it's too much money or trouble to continue the drug war. I am not unaware of the expense, and frankly it is the most stupid of all of the arguments used. Tell me, if it were your child using drugs, how much trouble and money would you go through to get that child help?

And don't give me the "pot is natural" argument either. Poison Oak is natural, asbestos is natural, tobacco is natural, rattlesnake bites are natural, hell- even cancer is natural. Natural does not necessarily mean healthy or good for you.
last edited: 4/21/07 5:12:14 PM”

“Can't the police and prosecutors focus their efforts on other kinds of criminals if drugs are decriminalized? You know, like rapists, molesters, embezzlers, slumlords, child abusers, etc. etc. etc.

Exactly! The prisons would be half as full leaving plenty of room for the hardened violent criminals to serve their whole sentences. On top of this because of legalization the prices would come way down which would cause crime as a whole to come down. And that $600 a second we spend could go for things like, oh I don't know, border security! The vast majority of drug offenders in prison are the casual users.

Then there would be the lives saved from ODing because the strength would be regulated, there wouldn't be all the killer additives, and not to mention the spread of AIDS would plummet because one could buy fresh needles at the drug store and prostitution for drug money would go down too.

The black market for the manufacture and sale of drugs would go the way of the moonshiner and speak easies. We can learn a lot from the times of prohibition. When alcohol was made illegal alcoholism rose by 80%. When it came back it went back down even lower than before prohibition.

And think of the job explosion! The family farm would make such a come back. Farmer in the Dell could be making a good living by growing the stickiest of the ickiest. LOL! And hemp would come back. No more chewing up whole trees to make paper.

You'll never stop drugs but through reasonable control we can control the problem with actual benefits to society.”

““Ok, what is the half-life of marijuana? what time will you have to smoke it in order to safely drive your vehicle the next day? How do you feel about your kid's school bus driver smoking it the night before he drives your kid to school at 6am in the morning? THC is stored in fat cells. You haven't smoked in quite awhile, but you decide to go on a diet and start burning off those fat cells. . .

I am perfectly aware that prohibition was a stupid idea that was bound to loose and did. However, alchohol with all of it's rules and regulations is still abused frequently and seemingly uncontrolled when you look at drunk driving statistics. Do you really see a bright future for legalized drug use in this country when you look at how alchohol is being used/abused now?

Don't tell me that it's too much money or trouble to continue the drug war. I am not unaware of the expense, and frankly it is the most stupid of all of the arguments used. Tell me, if it were your child using drugs, how much trouble and money would you go through to get that child help?

And don't give me the "pot is natural" argument either. Poison Oak is natural, asbestos is natural, tobacco is natural, rattlesnake bites are natural, hell- even cancer is natural. Natural does not necessarily mean healthy or good for you.
last edited: 4/21/07 5:12:14 PM”

The answer to every one of your questions is already answered. The same way we deal with alcohol. We have alcohol available on nearly every street corner and yet the vast majority of people, children and teens included, go through their lives without becoming an alcoholic.”

“My argument isn't about how much I would spend to stop my daughter from smoking pot. For one thing its a pointless argument. We are spending buckets and buckets of money on it yet if she wanted to she could smoke it tomorrow. My argument is how many people have to die to do my job, which is to stop my daughter from smoking pot or to use it responsibly and teach her about the dangers of harder drugs.

Right now our lectures to kids is stupid. The system has to teach that pot is bad since the system has made it illegal. Kids see that we are lying about how dangerous pot is so why not try something harder. Maybe we are lying about that, too.”

“Nigal, do you sincerely think we are successful in controlling alchohol? Honestly? I do not think we are. Witness the attendance in organizations like AA, AlAnon, AlAteen, MADD, SADD. How many lives are lost, how many people are injured in drunk driving accidents? How many times does alchohol figure into accidents/incidents that do not include driving?

And alchohol leaves the body in a fairly quick and orderly fashion. You still have not answered the question, "what is the half-life of marijuana?"”

“I wish pot would last till the next morning, but alas, back in the day, I always needed to light up again come dawn.”

“White Castles ,I'll be fine, don't bogart that joint, My friend
last edited: 4/21/07 7:55:29 PM”

“Nigal, do you sincerely think we are successful in controlling alchohol? Honestly? I do not think we are. Witness the attendance in organizations like AA, AlAnon, AlAteen, MADD, SADD. How many lives are lost, how many people are injured in drunk driving accidents? How many times does alchohol figure into accidents/incidents that do not include driving?

Relatively speaking yes. The prohibition years showed that controlling is better and easier than banning. All these problems would still be here if alcohol were banned, yes? Yes. It comes down to personal responsibility. If we want to start trying to save ourselves from anything that may hurt us where does it end? It doesn't.

And alchohol leaves the body in a fairly quick and orderly fashion. You still have not answered the question, "what is the half-life of marijuana?"

This is too complicated a question to have a definitive answer. There are too many factors such as metabolism, amount of intake, ect. I have never heard of someone having a thc flashback from say dieting. I can say from personal experience that the effects of smoking has never been more than drinking. The fear tactics of bus drivers driving stoned and doctors operating on people while stoned are no more effective than saying the same about drinking.”

“"Ok, what is the half-life of marijuana?"

What is a "half-life" and why is it important?

"what time will you have to smoke it in order to safely drive your vehicle the next day?

You obviously have never smoked pot before.

"How do you feel about your kid's school bus driver smoking it the night before he drives your kid to school at 6am in the morning?"

The school district, like most (if not all) in my state require a piss test for drivers. Also, they cannot be convicted of a felony, or anything booze related. So, your comparison is not only flawed, but weak as well (along with your argument so far.) It's apparent that you sleep well in the arms of fallacy. BTW -- I feel pretty comfortable with my son's school district to make sure that the people who are driving my sons are within the guidelines the school district has in place to help ensure the safety of the transportation of my children. If I am to worry about some warry "pot head" driving my kid to school, then it's the school issue, because they are in charge of policing that area.

"THC is stored in fat cells. You haven't smoked in quite awhile, but you decide to go on a diet and start burning off those fat cells. . ."

So phucking what. What's the point with this skull bluburry?

"I am perfectly aware that prohibition was a stupid idea that was bound to loose and did."

That's a start.

"However, alchohol with all of it's rules and regulations is still abused frequently and seemingly uncontrolled when you look at drunk driving statistics."

You do know that you are comparing two completely different drugs, that have different affects on a person. In case you did know, this is called an apples and oranges argument, which is common. Lump it all in together; makes it easier for people like you.

"Do you really see a bright future for legalized drug use in this country when you look at how alchohol is being used/abused now?"

Apples and oranges again. You really don't know the pro-pot side, do you? You're just throwing out all the usual terms and "just say no" of the failed slogans I grew up with.

"Don't tell me that it's too much money or trouble to continue the drug war. I am not unaware of the expense, and frankly it is the most stupid of all of the arguments used."

How can you even be taken seriously? You choose not to educate yourself about the issue in which you are trying to engage in discourse. How can you be unaware of the expense, then say that it's a stupid argument to use? Talk about phucking deNile.

"Tell me, if it were your child using drugs, how much trouble and money would you go through to get that child help?"

Another fallacy.


I'll respectfully now point out how full of shyt you are.

"And don't give me the "pot is natural" argument either. Poison Oak is natural, asbestos is natural, tobacco is natural (in cig form, it is one of the most deadliest things you could put into your body. Plus the tobacco uses all kinds of unnatural chemicals to grow it), rattlesnake bites are natural, hell- even cancer is natural. Natural does not necessarily mean healthy or good for you."

Comparing pot with rattlesnakes is absurd, like this whole like rant. Your argument is a joke, weak, flawed and littered with obtuse, overt and obnoxious fallacy (the main reason why I used it in response. Your post doesn't even warrant a proper response.)

I wish you well on your many (hopefully) years of continued recovery. However, I do not feel that you are a very good opposition voice. Keep making our point; we need more like you out there, "spreading your word".
last edited: 4/22/07 12:28:49 AM”

“THC metabolites are stored in fat cells. You will absolutely not get a buzz from burning fat. As far as waking up high the next day, that stuff never came to my town.”

“Why is it so important to you that we make drugs legal?

I have no need to make something legal which has inherent problems. I do not foresee anything good coming out of the legalization of street drugs.

I have yet to meet someone who's life has not been touched/harmed by knowing someone who is addicted to alchohol or drugs, or hasn't had a family member or friend killed or maimed by a drunk/drugged driver. I am willing to bet that everyone here knows someone who has been harmed in some way.

You cannot begin to imagine all that I and my family have lost. And my husband's heart was damaged by abuse of a legal drug.

Besides the obvious, are they really soooo different from one another? A drug is a drug is a drug. From chocolate to heroine, people are always looking for some chemical to feel different from what they already do.

Instead of giving up and making drugs legal, why do we not give our children the tools to cope with life without the short term escape of drugs?

I feel laqtis that you misunderstood many of the things I wrote, and then you went off on me in a rage, perhaps because you are so bent on your point that you are completely unwilling to even try to see things from my point of view? So I will not bother to try writing back to you at this time. The reason for a debate is to explain your view and listen to the other one, and attempt understanding. Not to bash the other guy's head in. I at least understand your point of view even if I disagree. I know that we are presently loosing the war on drugs, I am just not going to give in because I think we have much to loose.

Btw, a half-life has to do with how long it takes for a drug to leave your body.”

“Why is it so important to you that we make drugs legal?

You haven't read a single thing I'm saying...”

“I could easily say the same thing”

“And alchohol leaves the body in a fairly quick and orderly fashion
praying to the porcelain gods often helps.

why do we not give our children the tools to cope with life without the short term escape of drugs?
huh?
most kids are gonna try alcohol during their teen years. up here, most kids try pot too. doesn't really matter what you try to teach them, experimenting is part of growing up. if offered a choice, i'd rather see more of a crackdown on underage drinking.
no violent crimes are ever committed by potheads...too busy sitting around talking, laughing, and wondering what to eat. not so with alcohol, which seems to bring out people's aggressive tendencies. bar brawls? domestic abuse? out-of-control threatening behaviour? i'm sure there's a whole lot more alcohol involved in these crimes than marijuana.”

“it does NOT work for pain at all, it would actually cause you to focus in on the pain.

it has been well documented that marijuana can be effective pain relief. perhaps individual results depend on the quality of the marijuana and the type of pain experienced. how it is consumed also makes a difference.

note: never, ever smoke pot before getting your legs waxed!!!”

“pamela, most lives are ruined by the illegal use of pot, not by smoking pot itself. The same for crack. Clean cocaine is used by the wealthy all the time and they manage to function. Its the chopped down crap that screws people up.”

“What I find the most interesting commentary here is that on another thread the 'virtual' use of drugs was discussed. One of the individuals who so vehemently decries the legalization pretended to not only drink but to use a controlled substance as well. I am not sure what this is all telling me but it is certainly a conundrum to ponder.”

“I'm not a fan of drugs.
Never have been, never will be.

The root of most of this issue (and most issues) seem to me to be selfishness mixed with a certain degree of ignorance (either innocent or willful) and/or stupidity.

I doesn't matter what the subject or the substance or the tool but when people think/act erroneously coupled with a distinct lack of consideration things go bad.

Contra wise when anything is used in a intelligent and considerate manner there is rarely a problem.
last edited: 4/22/07 11:27:16 AM”

“sandyann, that is funny. one of the anti-social lounges probably?”

“One of the more liberal social lounges I believe. Practice your beliefs - whether fantasy or reality. :o)”

“"The reason for a debate is to explain your view and listen to the other one, and attempt understanding. Not to bash the other guy's head in."

Hey! This is TrailTalk!



It's obvious to me that if a person doesn't have the freedom to decide what he or she puts into their own body, then liberty in this country is a joke.”

“Hardy-har-har....”

““I could easily say the same thing”No I read every word, I understand your position and I respect it. But the reasons you present for not legalizing drugs is going to be here weather they are legal or not. My position is that if we are going to have 100% of the issues with drug use why not at least be able to alleviate 75% of the negative effects of the drugs.”

“Sometimes I get to post in a fantasy world sandyann; you don't? Once I was a druggie, I won't lie and tell you that I don't have a single fond moment, how stupid would I look then? I do remember sitting at the beach around campfires and passing around doobies and having a good laugh and a fine time. Drugs usually do start out being fun, we wouldn't go back to them again and again if they didn't now; would we?

Nigal, I am glad that you say you understand and respect my position. I do understand and respect yours. It's just that I am not sure it's a workable, winning solution to the problem, and when I look into the eyes of all the young adults and teens that I know, I realize just how much we have to loose by the experiment.”

“Well, we know the experiment we've been running so far has created another ungodly raft of problems: maintaining a criminal class to supply it, destabilizing other countries, transforming our country into a quasi police state with millions of people pissing into little plastic cups to keep their jobs, the billions spent on interdicting a paltry percentage of the traffic...

It's insane.”

“moonijuana baby, moonijuana

Tetrahydrocannabinol is a psychoactive substance... a hallucinogenic drug.

Synthetic THC is available with a prescription (Marinol) and unlike "MJ" it has a low risk of physical or mental dependency.

Arguments about why tobacco is dangerous and legal are not arguments for marijuana. They are different substances.”

“Pamela, I agree that sometimes fantasy is good. Sometimes even, fantasy can prove to be better than reality. Yes, I have done my fair share of drugs and alcohol, and then some, in my time. Yet, if I were as diametrically opposed to something as you espouse to be, the legalization of marijauna, as you so have so adamantly maintained above, I would not fantasize out loud about partaking again.

I am no judge or jury in this matter. This is not a personal attack against anyone on this thread. Simply how I feel - No offense meant. Apologies beforehand.
last edited: 4/22/07 11:23:04 PM”

“Synthetic THC is available with a prescription (Marinol) and unlike "MJ" it has a low risk of physical or mental dependency.

It works about as well as a synthetic substitute too. I have an acquaintance with aids that was prescribed the synthetic THC for nausea and it did nothing. He has smoke before nearly every meal to keep the food down.”

“I know plenty of good people that smoke pot on a daily basis. They have families, jobs, and life is good. Because a few addictive people can't stop themselves from destroying their own lives doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.”

“Nigal, I believe you are correct in your assessment of marinol.”

“so, i guess criminalization of chocolate is next?”

“My understanding is that marinol helps with promoting hunger, but that's about it. A lame excuse for THC.”

“Nigal, does the Marinol work for glacoma?”

“some "hippie" pamela turned out to be. so far, she hates libbies and opposes bud legalization. she probably thinks tie-dye is hideous, too.”

“Don't know what that says about me since I like hippies, want the bud be legal and dig my tie dyes.”

“Im with hyway!”

“There is a new generation of kids who are kind of modern day hippies.

Many other young people whom I have contact with have a groove as well.

Arts, media and music are prominent at my university as are international studies and international people.

And with today's weather getting into the 80's........finally!!!
The clothes are comin' off!!”

“marinol is not effective in the treatment of glaucoma but neither is marijuana. the dosage of marijuana required to reduce pressure in the eye is very high (no pun intended)... like smoking a joint every few hours. source: glaucoma research foundation

synthetic thc is chemically identical to natural thc.”

“Please cRaSh BaNg, stop saying "Pamela hates" libbies. It is simply not true.

Holding a different position/view/belief/standard from someone and being unafraid to state so, does not constitute hatred of a person or persons.

While many people singularly irritate the heck out of me, there is not one person or groups of persons that I actually put effort into hating. The highest I go is "intensely dislike". I intensely dislike my store manager.

I believe that marijuana has some medical uses/benefits and I did vote FOR this law here in CA.

I do not apologize for having different beliefs (than most of you) about the recreational use of marijuana. I don't expect that you should apologize for your beliefs/stand either. I will say I am sorry though, if any of you perceived anything I have said as a personal attack, it certainly was not meant as such. I am guessing that is why some of you felt the need to attack me.

I do have very strong views about drug use/abuse because of all that I and my family have lost. I have also seen and heard a lot more being in a few 12 step org.s Stories that make you cry. Stories that make you angry.

I just don't think anyone's desire to get high should supercede everyone else's need to be safe.

and never assume anything; i love tie-dye. i wore my last shirt until it became near translucent and then finally all the holes met up and became one big hole.”

“stop saying "Pamela hates" libbies. It is simply not true

youre the one who said it.

. I will say I am sorry though, if any of you perceived anything I have said as a personal attack, it certainly was not meant as such.

i never took anything youve said as an attack. except when you said "i hate libbies".”

“Penn and Teller's Bullchit!- War On Drugs:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HCNKMQR1yg

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZEoliIPLh0&mode=related&search=

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cuMVADig8w&mode=related&search=”

“I just don't think anyone's desire to get high should supercede everyone else's need to be safe.

neither does anyone else. you are totally misrepresenting the pro-legalization's arguments when you make statements like that. the main point is, the war on drugs is causing more harm than good by creating a black market culture (and all the violence inherent in that culture), as well as wasting resources that could be put to better use against more serious infractions. those obnoxious ads say if you buy drugs, youre funding terrorists. well, remove the need for their black market and youre helping fight the terrorists. so, are you with us or against us?”

“70's Decade = Doobie
80's and 90's Decades = Joint
Today = Blunt

So as the quality gets better the name changes. And so it goes.”

“y'all do realize that these same arguments work for getting rid of gun control laws as well.”

“maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone attacking you, pammie. Sometimes when you are so close to a subject that you can't separate yourself from it, it feels that people are attacking you if they attack your position.”

“"pam is a stupid b!tch"


there. that is an attack on you, pam

"pam is wrong because..."

that is an attack of your position.

dont be a sargette”

“Well laqtis told me I was full of sh*t, I think that's pretty personal as far as attacks go. I think being told over and over and over again that I supposedly hate libbies is an attack of some kind, especially since I do not. Still not sure where this is coming from crash.

I'm fine with you all disagreeing with me. I am not one of those people who thinks less of someone just because they hold a view different from my own. Everyone has the right to hold and voice an opinion.

I do believe there are people who can smoke the occasional joint and not have it affect the rest of their life. Just like I have the occasional drink. If they are living an otherwise clean life, they likely haven't been caught and probably won't be; they don't need my help, and I don't feel the need to validate it for them.

The alchohol vs. pot pursuant to violence argument. I will admit that I have never seen someone purely stoned on pot get violent. The only problem is, I rarely see anyone not mixing drugs these days. They are usually doing beer or hard liquor and pot, or meth and pot. Anyone who knows anything about alchohol and meth users knows that these people can be pretty volatile when pushed.

Seriously, if any of you want to legalize pot and see if things get better, why don't you try it in your state first and I'll watch and wait. Because frankly, I've seen way too much bad stuff and I still AM willing to spend my tax money to keep it illegal and protect the next generation of kids. Maybe if you guys had been addicts like me and seen and heard the stuff I've seen and heard, you'd understand. But just for now, I'll thank you for letting me voice my opinion without undue harrassment.”

“You see Pamela, you have exhibited character traits and behavior that is consistent with that of a Conservative. If it walks like a conservative and quacks like a conservative then it's a conservative. Therefor by TT Natural Law you have to hate libbies. By TT Natural Law you must choose a side; the extreme far left or the extreme far right. Once you have chosen, or in this case been assigned, a side you must stay there and exhibit only those characteristics and behaviors that reflect your side's views.

Moderates tend to slow down the weak minded on TT. We have to keep things orderly and fast and loose here.

Hope this help ya some...”