Dept. Of Homeland Security Is A Joke

“Oak Ridge was once listed as a major possible target, of course. East TN is a hotspot as well as other DOE-ridden places. Extra money is needed for protection in many places for (using lizs' sentiment - things are not what they seem).

...such as information and homeland security. This concerns me because being a technical writer, I deal with document security quite often. Record Centers need extra money. Maps for facilities such as the WTC and the Pentagon are available on the internet. We live in an open information society, but we cannot behave as naively as before 911. Anyone like at the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)?”

“It would be easier to train them in these places, I would think, Buck. Like you say, I am no expert. Just a guess there. But, this also goes towards what Tilt was talking about. The porosity of our borders. These slimy mofos are sliding through the perimeters like grease through a tube. They seem to be coming in to more remote places than say, New York harbor...”

“Actually, a terrorist attack on a small town on the high plains would be quite a coup for al qaeda. It's one thing for arabs to blend into NYC, but quite another to blend into lilly-white Montana, for instance. Imagine the implications that would have for the extent of al qaeda's reach.”

“: "Buck you live in CA?"
nough said"
mapleleaf
11:43:59 AM
11/21/03

Yes, mapleleaf, I live in CA, one of the most liberal states in the union! You must not be too fond of liberal states if you are trying to use living in California against me! :^D

As for me, I think people are wonderful in every state of this blessed land.”

“Don't go out on a limb there, buck”

“liberal states

what the hell does that have to do with wanting to LIVE in any Safe city?”

“It would be more embarassing, I would think, Mutt. It just would probably not kill as many people in one shot.”

“Mutt has a good point (i think)”

“FOIA is too weak to keep the crooks in government on their toes.”

“: ""liberal states... what the hell does that have to do with wanting to LIVE in any Safe city?"
mapleleaf
11:54:15 AM
11/21/03

mapleleaf, perhaps I missed your point (which isn't too tough for a guy like me to do, I suck at communication and reading comprehension), I thought you were using the point of me living in California as the reason you think my views are "nutty". I live in Northern California, which, if you've been here, much of it is very rural.”

“Hey, here's an off-topic question/request... how do you make text italic or bold? It makes it easier to identify quotes from others than merely having me cut and paste in response. Is there a font toolbar I'm missing here? Sorry, I'm from California. :^D”

“In the wake of 911, there was much debate about the descrimination or "targeting" of potential terrorists based on appearance. Just because someone looks middle eastern shouldnt justify suspicion, so the argument went. To assume our enemy is primitive and stupid is wrong. They have most certainly been attampting to recruit individuals that dont fit the description.

The fact is that if even a fraction of a percent of the illegals pouring into our country have terrorist intentions, there could be plenty of them blending in everywhere. Not just LA and NYC.

Much better homeland security efforts NEED to be directed at the borders, or this country will continue to saturate with the enemy.”

“sorry I got involved with this thread. didnt read all of the posts, so i am backing away from it and heading out the door.

~slam~”

“Tilt - how so? Not challenging you, just want to know...


"The Ashcroft FOIA Memorandum emphasizes the Administration's commitment to full compliance withthe FOiA as an important means of maintaining an open and accountable system of goverment. At personal interests that can be implicated of protecting the sensitive institutional, commercial, and person interests that can be implicated in goverment records - such as the need to safeguard national security, to maintain law enforcement effectiveness, to respect business confidentiality, to protect internal agency deliberations, and to preserve personal privacy.

In replacing the predecessor of FOIA memorandum, the Ashcroft FOIA Memorancum establsishes a new "sound legal basis" standard governing the Dept. of Justice's decisions on whether to defend agency actions under the FOIA when they are challenged in court. This differs from the "foreseeable harm" standard that was employed under the predecessor Memorandum. Under the new standard, agencies should reach the judgement that their use of FOIA exemption is on sound footing, both factually and legally, whenever they withhold requested information."”

“They have most certainly been attampting to recruit individuals that dont fit the description

I'm sure you're right. No place is safe. Still, I'd rather be free than safe.”

“: ""Actually, a terrorist attack on a small town on the high plains would be quite a coup for al qaeda. It's one thing for arabs to blend into NYC, but quite another to blend into lilly-white Montana, for instance. Imagine the implications that would have for the extent of al qaeda's reach."
Mutt
11:52:00 AM
11/21/03

Mutt, are you profiling here? tsk... tsk... tsk...”

“use HTML
The < I > < / I >
The < B > < / B > without the spaces”

“Oops, sorry, I was late to the party on the above statement. KEEP UP, BUCK!”

“The scary part is that they have actually superseded the stereotypes. If you look at photographs of some of these guys, they are not what you would expect, necessarily. Also, they are looking to recruit more 'American' looking types too...”

“like this

and this?

Thanks smokygirl!”

“"They have most certainly been attampting to recruit individuals that dont fit the description

I'm sure you're right. No place is safe. Still, I'd rather be free than safe."
Mutt
12:05:18 PM
11/21/03


I love freedom just as much as all of you. But not the freedom for illegals to infiltrate our rediculously porous border as they please (currently the case). Militarize the nation's borders.”

“Militarize the nation's borders

How would this help exactly?”

“"The scary part is that they have actually superseded the stereotypes. If you look at photographs of some of these guys, they are not what you would expect, necessarily. Also, they are looking to recruit more 'American' looking types too..."
Treebeard
12:09:30 PM
11/21/03


This is the point that I am trying to offer, Treebeard. Our border security is the biggest joke of all. You should here some of the rediculous and dangerous policies that our Border Patrol agents are required to follow.”

“Like, the fact that you can get into the country with fake license with your picture scotch taped to the one below and your name crossed out and another written in in crayon?”

“Mutt, right now there is nobody on the border except a few agents, and these are mostly at the points of entry. There are countless places that are wide open, and the few scattered mobilized border patrol units cruising the area haven't a hope in hell to put a dent in the influx of illegal immigration. We should have some kind of guard on the border to control this. It will of course never stop, but I think that most of the country is largely unaware of just how bad the border problem is.”

“But how would it help with terrorism? Illegal immigration is a different issue.”

“Like, the fact that a Border Patrol agent is only allowed to detain obvious illegals within a certain buffer zone on the American side. Outside of that buffer zone (I forget how big, maybe a few miles) an agent is not allowed to detain even a known repeat offender illegal. Even if the repeat offender is known to be violent or otherwise a threat. Agents are required to let them be under current CA Border Patrol Policy.”

“I have a non-biased, non-hyperbole, non-political intended serious question for those who so adamantly oppose the intentions of the Bush Administration in this fight against domestic terror.

1. If you were President of the United States of America, what policies would you put in place in our effort to fight domestic terrorism? (I'm not asking what you dislike about Bush's efforts, I'm asking what specific policies would you put in place yourself). I'm also not asking for generic things like, "enforce the borders, etc.) HOW would you enforce the borders, etc. You aren't FORCED to answer though. I'm not that demanding.

I was actually watching tv last night for a bit (that's really rare) and I was watching a PBS show on Oswald. I fell asleep before the end of the show and I have a question that's been buggin' me all morning... DID OSWALD SHOOT KENNEDY, AND IF SO, DID HE ACT ALONE? I hate falling asleep before programs end.”

“Our weak illegal immigration policies is a tool that the terrorists are using against us to great effect. Our borders are so soft it is truly scary. ANYONE has a very good chance of getting in.”

“Tree, to answer the question you originally posed, check on the electoral college vote for each of the states in the last election, and the likely electoral college vote in the next election. You just might learn something.

To respond to an issue that came up in the precedign page, capitol is a building, while capital is a town or city. You could look it up.”

“c_bat, I'm not trying to be cute. I just don't see how militarizing the border will keep out a determined group of terrorists. Israel's failures are what come to my mind. Plus, a fortified border will do nothing about terrorists who get into the country legally.”

“Time to crank up the fear as we head into election year ;o)”

“Well, Geo. I can surmise where you are going with that one. As for domestic terrorism, there is no realistic way to secure all the possible places that an attack could occur. For one thing, the airlines would at least be a good place to start. I would take a page from the book of El Al airlines, for one. These folks deal with the threat of terroism on a daily basis and have for decades now. If you notice, El Al planes generally don't get hijacked. All cockpit doors should be secured. To hell with arming pilots. Isolate them form potential danger. Let them worry about flying the damned bird. Air marshalls should be on board all flights. Their sole purpose would be as watchdogs, something pilots can't do, even if armed. This may avert a disaster before it starts. 9/11 may not have happened if this was a reality...”

“: "Like, the fact that you can get into the country with fake license with your picture scotch taped to the one below and your name crossed out and another written in in crayon?"
Treebeard
12:20:53 PM
11/21/03

I agree. And it doesn't help when you had a Governor like Gray Davis out here in CA who acutally LEGALIZED driving licenses for ILLEGAL aliens. I'm like... huh? These illegals didn't have to try and FAKE ID's, these illegals could get LEGAL ones! No wonder he got prematurely ejected. Ahnold says he's gonna take care of that right away. We need laws that make sense, IMHO.”

“Militarizing the border will keep out much more than the current flow, depending on the degree of militarization. As I said, we will never keep them all out. But as of now, the vast majority are just having their way with our "border sucurity".”

“once again Mutt speeketh the truth. covering the boarders is just the start.”

“Buck, that's the SB60 that I was talking about. The "Illegal Driver's License Bill". Yeah, lets just give all the terrorists legit ID.”

“I wasn't aware of that, Buck. But, that sure HAS to go!”

“Gov't has been claiming 'national security' for decades... in many cases to simply avoid embarassment. Overclassification of gov't documents is a scourge from all I've gathered watching C-SPAN over the years. I need to google that and see what pops up.

IIRC, there were boards set up to declassify as many documents as they could, but for every one they declassified, 100 more were being classified! LOL Everyone involved with the process says it's insane.

Maybe it's also because I came of age during the Watergate Era, but when a gov't spokesperson says 'Trust us,' I have to stifle a laugh. I just don't trust them bastiges no more! <G>

One specific instance that comes to mind is from a history professor I had in college. Her Ph.D. concerned weapons used in Vietnam. After submitting some 500 FOIA requests (with DOD fighting tooth and nail on each one), she came to the conclusion that we radically altered the balance of power in Southeast Asia based on the weaponry we left behind when we... skeedaddled.

Of course, information regarding the quantites of M-16s we had left behind a over a decade earlier were still classified... That kind of thing.

Personally, I'm more interested in campaign finance records, or the recent findings of the Center for Public Integity re: the letting of government contracts in Iraq. Without FOIA, how much More in the dark would we be?”

“I agree that addressing the border security issue is not the complete answer. As Mutt said, it will do nothing about the "legal" terrorists. But something needs to be done there, and short of militarization I dont know what would work. Hell, I dont even know how militarizing the border would work, logistically etc. All I know is that it is a massive problem that is mostly being ignored.”

“I really don't mind if we let in illegal droves of beautiful 18-22 year old Mexican women, but dammit, IT NEEDS TO STOP RIGHT THERE!”

“An effort to repeal this insane bill failed this week. 47 dems voted to keep the bill. Senate President Pro Tem John Burton labeled as "racist" the push to kill SB 60. Talk about pulling the race card, CA dems have been pulling it all along on the security of YOUR family as well as mine.”

“To respond to an issue that came up in the precedign page, capitol is a building, while capital is a town or city. You could look it up.\\\"
Geobeet



I thought I had that right, but didn\\\'t feel like looking it up.”

“Capital has many meanings, but capitol is always a building where a legislative body meets. The one in Washington is always capitalized.

I think the idea was that if legislative bodies meet in capitols, that keeps them from screwing up the gene pool. Obviously, our founding fathers did not think that through too clearly. They were supposed to keep the doors locked.”

“I was talking about buildings! :^D”

“"Ok, I guess that's true enough.

I think most eastern cities, (large towns) have more people than the whole state of Montana.

City Hall in Greensboro, NC is bigger than the capital building in Helena."
Roam Around
11:16:50 AM
11/21/03
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Also, Roam Around, Helena is the CAPITOL of Montana, not the CAPITAL. Ain't this fun? Ha ha! :^D"
Buck
11:17:01 AM
11/21/03
ignore this user

Both wrong!
Yes, it is fun.”

“I remember reading an article about
the Department of Transportation
DOT office of Homeland Security.
The first years budget of 20 million was for recruitment and organization. Their meetings were
held in Colorado ski hotels/lodges
and Caribbean island hotels. Not
too many people got hired but the
agency asked for an increase of
10 million for this years budget.”

“Geobeet, you are so fair and balanced, showing both of our errors equally, you should apply at Fox News! :^D”

“The Bush Administration decides it's time to discuss PP sizes.

”

“Rummy and Condi are vying for describing the smallest of weiners, while Colin shoots for the WHOOPPER!”