Got my MSR MIOX purifier today

“or your teeth...”

“Unless you're downstream from a grazing pasture...”

“You will be fine, just pick the pieces of shat-out straw from your teeth between sips.”

“Tell me again what the benefits of AM are over the cheapo Potable Aqua tabs? I've been using them for years.”

“AM produces chloine dioxide, if I remember that right (I'm in a hurry right now and can't look it up). Its used by many city water systems - it disinfects, as well as improving water clarity and smell. It will even kill Crypto if given enough time.

Iodine does not improve taste or clarity (if anything it worsens it), and will not kill Crypto. Once opened, a bottle of iodine pills must be discarded after a year, AM lasts much longer especially if kept in a cool place (I keep mine refrigerated between trips).”

“what is crypto?”

“FYI - mine froze when the temps got below 32deg and wouldnt work (with new batteries).

But I did love using it the rest of the year.”

“Below 32, just boil the water or melt snow.”

“What about yellow snow Zac ?”

“Don't use yellow snow. Wasn't there a song about that?”

“Frank Zappa!”

“Frank Zappa - Apostrophe (1974)
Don't Eat The Yellow Snow

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000009SI/103-2006111-8574260?v=glance

Dreamed I was an Eskimo
(Bop-bop ta-da-da bop-bop Ta-da-da)
Frozen wind began to blow
(Bop-bop ta-da-da bop-bop Ta-da-da)
Under my boots 'n around my toe
(Bop-bop ta-da-da bop-bop Ta-da-da)
Frost had bit the ground below
(Boop-boop aiee-ay-ah!)
Was a hundred degrees below zero
(Booh!)
(Bop-bop ta-da-da bop-bop Ta-da-da)
And my momma cried:
Boo-a-hoo hoo-ooo
And my momma cried:
Nanook-a, no no (no no . . . )
Nanook-a, no no (no no . . . )
Don't be a naughty Eskimo-wo-oh
(Bop-bop ta-da-da bop-bop Ta-da-da)
Save your money: don't go to the show
Well I turned around an' I said:
HO HO
(Booh!)
Well I turned around an' I said:
HO HO
(Booh!)
Well I turned around an' I said:
HO HO
An' the Northern Lites commenced t' glow
An' she said
(Bop-bop ta-da-da bop . . . )
With a tear in her eye:
WATCH OUT WHERE THE HUSKIES GO
AN' DON'T YOU EAT THAT YELLOW SNOW
WATCH OUT WHERE THE HUSKIES GO
AN' DON'T YOU EAT THAT YELLOW SNOW
last edited: 11/02/05 11:31:52 PM”

“Indiana John - cryptosporidium: A protozoan associated with the disease cryptosporidiosis in humans. The disease can be transmitted through ingestion of drinking water, person-to-person contact, or other exposure routes. Cryptosporidiosis may cause acute diarrhea, abdominal pain, vomiting, and fever that last 1-2 weeks in healthy adults, but may be chronic or fatal in immuno-compromised people.”

“"other exposure routes" ... uhhh, ewwww.”

“Hey!

So yes, I bought a MIOX... mostly out of curiosity than anything else. I am an avid Aquamira fan and think that Aquamira is as close to perfect as you can get for an ultralight water treatment.

Anyhow... I'll put on my asbestos underwear and post on.

I read all the beotching posts about how the thing stinks. I'll make my own decisions here but I noticed some common threads both on TT and, ESPECIALLY, off of TT.

1. Why do people insist on writing an evaluation of gear that they don't own?

2. Why do people insist on turning a review of a piece of gear like the MIOX into a discussion on the merits of pumping versus using chemical treatments? Don't compare apples to oranges... compare apples to apples. I think it's fair for people to say "I prefer X to Y" but why slam a piece of gear because of a subjective preference?

3. The MIOX instructions tell you to test the water after you add the oxidants and again 10 minutes later. People were posting all sorts of crazy things. Example: One person was complaining that the water tested "safe" 30 minutes after the test but 2 and 4 hours later got "less and less safe" meaning that over time the oxidant level decreased. Well, dude, this is to be expected. The oxidants disperse. So you test once after 10 minutes and then you are done... period. These people complained that they had to keep adding oxidant to "keep" the water safe. Ridiculous.

4. People saying batteries were expensive and hard to find. Well I found SureFire batteries (recommended by MSR) both in the package with the device and also on the web exactly where MSR said I should find them. People then complained about the price ($10 for two batteries in one post). My cost? $21 for 12 batteries (shipping included) or $3.50 for a battery change. These are lithium batteries with a huge shelf life so why not stock up?

5. People complaining that the unit uses salt too quickly. The MSR instructions are confusing on this point and I think are conflicting. One page says to fill the salt chamber (which I think is the correct approach). Another says to fill the chamber which is about 1/4 tsp of salt. The chamber holds a lot more than 1/4 tsp of salt. When I fill the chamber the salt does not get consumed quickly and I can easily see one fill providing 20 treatments as MSR states. I have experimented and done about 10 and have plenty of salt left over.

6. People complaining about taste. I have had to drink water in the backcountry that I would not step in with my boot. I did not find the water treatment to be free of taste and odor 30 minutes after I mixed it, unlike Aquamira which I can't taste at all. Of course complaints like this are legitimate but they are also highly subjective (a matter of personal preference). I was raised on well water and I still find city water repulsive. My kids have been raised on city water and find well water repulsive. Go figure.

7. People that took the unit "out of the box" into the weeds and tried to make it work in the field with no practice. The MSR MIOX pen clearly requires a bit of practice to use since it's not just a "dump and wait" solution like Aquamira... there is a PROCESS associated with it's use that is more complex than Aquamira but less complex than, say, pitching a tent or tying ones shoes.

8. Complaints that the thing is "expensive to run" with test strips that must be purchased and batteries. Well I already addressed the battery cost although I still can't comment on how long a set of batteries will last in the field. That said, there is the matter of the test strips. Each batch of water requires that two test strips be consumed. I haven't figured out why one isn't sufficient. MSR says to test once after you mix the oxidants with the water and then again 10 minutes later. I don't see why one can't just test 10 minutes after you add the oxidants. I'll probably ask MSR about this but I expect I'll get a legal answer and not a technical one. Anyway, I read somewhere that the test strips they sell are basically the same as the test strips used to test pool water. I have to look into this. My belief at this point is that indeed Aquamira will be less expensive at $11 for enough to treat huge volumes of water.

9. People seem unable to deal with the concept or "waiting". I saw numerous posts on different web sites about how they didn't like having to wait to drink the water with the MSR MIOX pen and hence preferred to use Aquamira or PolarPure or a Filter. Well... last I checked you needed to wait to drink water made safe with Aquamira and PolarPure as well. The idea people kept posting that a filter was "no wait" "instant" water seems silly to me since you have to spend time pumping the water in the first place plus time to fiddle with the pump.

10. I got a kick out of the people that posted that the Military used it and they don't have a problem with the pen. The military uses a lot of things that I don't use as a backpacker (mortars, claymore mines, etc)... well perhaps some here do use these things but I don't... anyhow just because the military approves and uses something doesn't mean that it will be fit for my purposes as a hiker. It's a good start but won't wash away concerns I may have about how I will want to use the product.

11. Everyone keeps beotching about "this kills this but doesn't kill that". This all seems silly to me. I have used everything from boiling to iodine to chlorine dioxide to filters of all kinds and have never gotten sick period. I think if you combine the actual odds of getting sick (if you use common sense) with the efficacy of all of these products I am not really concerned about this. Still there were tons of creepy posts on this topic. "4 hours to kill crypto" was a real mind boggler to me. Aquamira take the same amount of time. Iodine doesn't kill it at all. Do people even realize that PolarPure is iodine, I wonder? It says so pretty clearly on the label of the bottle I have in my closet.

OK, I'll stop at 11. I'll be updating this thread as I tinker with this expensive science project in the months to come. I'll probably try to work out some sort of OBJECTIVE summary of the MSR MIOX compared to other treatment methods and an honest review from field testing in different conditions.

I will say, however, that I think a lot of the reviews/posts all over the web (most ont from TT but some of them) are really amazing to me.

OK, so I have my asbestos undies on... :)
last edited: 10/25/06 9:48:15 AM”

“Jimmy..um how does the aqua mira compare to the old iodine or chlorine water?”

“Aquamira produces chlorine dioxide. It is a two-part solution that is shelf stable meaning that it will last about 5 years unmixed. Once you mix the two parts you have to wait about 5 minutes for the two solutions to produce chlorine dioxide. Then you dump it in your water and wait.

Iodine varies somewhat. PolarPure, my favorite iodine based treatment, is basically an "add to water and wait" approach (no 5 minute wait time). Iodine tables are pretty much the same but you have to wait for the tablet to dissolve. Iodine tables are for sure NOT shelf stable (read the label). PolarPure is amazing stuff and I think is as close to a perfect iodine treatment as one can buy since it's pretty much shelf stable. It uses iodine crystals under water to produce a solution of saturated water/iodine you add to water. Since the crystals are never exposed to air (they are submerged under water) they don't go bad. Cool, cool, cool. :)

I can taste iodine (but don't mind the taste). You can remove the taste of iodine with tablets that are basically just vitamin-C... ascorbic acid. I can still taste it after this but again it doesn't bother me.

I can't taste Aquamira in water. I am told that this is because of the way oxidants like chlorine dioxide work... releasing oxygen that does the actual killing of the nasties.

I repackage Aquamira into two eye-drop dropper bottles. You need a fraction of an ounce for most backpacking trips.

You can get chlorine dioxide tablets as well (portable aqua and Katadyn make these) that basically work the same as Aquamira and are even lighter, but they are expensive if you look at cost/liter. I carry a few of these in my first aid kit as an emergency backup since the weight penalty is basically zero.
last edited: 10/25/06 9:59:21 AM”

“Different strokes for different folks. If you like it, use it.

Hell, if we all agreed on gear, most of the companies out there would go broke and one would be mega rich.

I am thinking about the steripen but I don't like the idea of floaties in my water. For the mean time, I am sticking with a filter.

Oh, and bro, thread degeneration is a way of life around here.

;-)”

“XL, the chlorine dioxide in Aquamira removes most bad tastes and colors, unlike iodine. It also kills Crypto as Jimmy san mentioned, which iodine does not. Think of that sulphur smell you get with some stagnant water, and the coloring you get from the tannin when leaves have been sitting in a pool of water (basically, tea). Aquamira will remove that smell and color, then the oxidant dissipates so you don't taste it. MIOX is the same. According to the company MIOX produces the same oxidant as AM, plus one more. What that other one is, is on this thread or another one here on TT that discusses MIOX. Iodine won't change clarity or taste. Bleach can improve clarity but always leaves behind its own taste.

Chlorine dioxide is used by many city water treatment systems, not only because of the benefits above but also because it doesn't leave behind carcinogens like bleach-based system do. I found that info on the EPA web site when I was researching chlorine dioxide.”

“Good write up on wikipedia on chlorine dioxide. The section "uses" is most applicable to hikers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide”

“There were complaints posted on various forums that tannin levels and mineral levels in the water effected the dose levels required from the MSR MIOX. I intend to test this out in the field. It makes sense to me, however. Most chemical treatments require either a larger dose or a longer contact time with water that is not clear or is murky. That said, if the MIOX mixture dissipates in 4 hours then it might be that a stronger up-front dose is required since the longest it will last is 4 hours. That might be the reason why MSR makes you retest after 10 minutes... the oxidants might get consumed by water rich in tannins and mineral content and leave less behind to kill of the nasties in the water. Hence test at 10 minutes and add more oxidant if the level is insufficient. This is pure speculation on my part, however, but the instructions say little about initial water quality or the reason for the second test being done after 10 minutes. It would be nice if they had a paragraph or two (even on their web site FAQ) that explained this type of thing.
last edited: 10/25/06 11:01:36 AM”

“Oh... and I'll add that I think I understand the reason for the testing with the strips. It is easy to tell if Aquamira is activated. It stink big time and has a yellow color. I am betting that there is enough chlorine dioxide in a batch that is yellow to treat most any kind of water given enough contact time. With the MSR MIOX the oxidant mixture is clear although it for sure has a strong odor. Also, I am betting the amount of active ingredient produced is just enough for most typical conditions and not "overkill". Anyway, since the mixture is clear and the "smell test" is imprecise the testing is probably required to get consistent results.

Again, just my opinion.”