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What's in a word?
“This has become one of the most over used and misused words sense "shock and awe". Why do people refer to most conservatives as "neocons"? I think it's funny when Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld and some of the others get called this because they've ALWAYS been conservatives. A neocon is one who was a liberal and swaped sides to conservative.
Main Entry: neo·con·ser·va·tive
: a former liberal espousing political conservatism”
What's In A Phrase?
“I want to know what is so special in the phrase "Shock And Awe", because there are a dozen+ organizations trying to trademark the thing?”
“I agree Nigal. It is important to distinguish between those whose value system suffers from a form of bi-polar disorder and those who were just born evil.”
“It was necessary to distinguish them from paleoconservatives.”
Wus dat? A conservitve that studies fosils?”
“What do you call somebody who is fed up with both liberals and conservatives?”
“Nigal: paleoconservatives are the old school. Constitutionalists, Isolationists, Southern, etc. William F. Buckley is a paleo, and National Review is probably the cornerstone of paleo media.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.”
“i dunno. your average american?”
“dammit geo get on with the joke”
“i think the term neocon refers to the new wave of conservativism, todays repubs as opposed to the old-school repubs, not the fact that theyve changed sides. i think its trying to point out that the neocons are even further right than the old repubs. they defineitely wouldnt have jumped ship from the lib side, they never would have been on it.”
“"Constitutionalists, Isolationists, Southern, etc"
Buacanan? Byrd? I see it used to discribe the current admin. and was surprised becuase people have been crying about Bush being really no different than the democrats. I think the whole thing just points to the uselessness of party lines.”
“Neocons have apparently abandoned the paleocon revulsion for peace through security.”
“sorry, meant to say "safety through security."”
“Safety through security?
“I would argue this point but apparently becuase I won't read particular books that others mention I'm a closed-minded liberal :o) - but then again...
I think they are neo-cons not because they've changed beliefs, but because of the new policy thoughts that they develop and follow, such as the pre-emptive war.”
“Yes, like the New Wave punk rockers.
Security can depend on Depends.”
“neopunks? oh geesh, that's the worst kind.....”
“It still is not an accurate use of the term. What is so different about this batch of conservetives than others? Did they just spring up? Why all of a sudden is the term so popular?”
“Because power has shifted.”
“I think conservatism has seen a revival, and it seems a label that media types are happy with.”
“it's a focus group term.
like 'gravitas", a deliberate, organized effort to dogmatize them.
“the libs got tired of the name-calling from the right and decided to give them a taste of their own medicine”
"i dunno. your average american?"
Thanks, ... I got it!”
“"Because power has shifted."
I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't matter what party is in the white house, they're gonna get bashed and villified. It just happenes to be our turn to get bashed. I can live with that. A presidents worth is usually not seen until AFTER they leave office. It's only through hindsite that we see how good they were. Raygun wasn't recongized for the political powerhouse and great leader he was until years later.
Just for the record though, I knew Ronnie was a great leader at the time. LOL!”
“Traditional or paleo-conservatives harbor a basic distrust of state power and generally oppose internationalism of any form. Many in the neoconservative movement were once liberals or even marxists (Irving Kristol, David Horowitz) but became disillusioned with the radical left. I think all are staunch anti-Communists. They believe in the power of a “good state” to produce positive change in the world. This is what produces the tension with the old guard conservatives like Pat Buchanan or William Buckley. I don’t think that Dubya is or was a neocon – remember his derision of ‘state building’ during his campaign? – but his administration is heavily staffed with neocons and their ideas have worked their way into policy, especially since September 11 showed the hazards of isolationism.”
“Was it the 27 criminal convictions or laying a wreath at the Bittburg military cemetery (which contained graves of the Waffen SS) that so impressed you about Reagan Nigal?”
“Sorry Viola. No bity bity trollboy.”
“So it was both?”
“So what did Ronnie do then? - I had no idea. (I hate to admit to agreeing with Nigal, but history will be faily kind to him I think).”
“Reagan's greatest achievement was breaking the back of organized labor. This allowed American industry the flexibility to invest in the newest technology - and the U.S. increased its percentage of the world's GDP largely as a result. Compare U.S. industry with Europe, for a lesson on how strong labor inhibits modernization and efficiency.”
“Doesn't do much for the workers though mutt ;o) I can't believe how little vacation time you guys get. I'd have a month to take off before June if I were back in UK, instead I have two days - how do you guys cope with it?”
“ynamiynami – Don’t be afraid to agree with Nigal – he’s not really so bad. Well...
To understand my post, read up on the Iran-contra scandal. For info on Ronnie’s trip to Bitburg, I highly recommend the Ramone’s tune “Bonzo goes to Bitburg” or this link.”
“Haha! Yeah right! "Click here. No really, it's OK."
Let's not forget that Ronnie defeated comunism, he wrote Star Wars, and he invented the internet (Gore ripped it off him).”
“So Voilin, Ronnie wasn't out hotwiring cars then?”
“Nah - just a little petty treason.”
“Who was it that said
"When liberals get rich they become conservatives. When conservatives get rich they become Senators."?”
“I heard a great one, on Bill Maur no less.
"If you're 20 and you're not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're 50 and are not a conservetive, you have no brain."”
“If I only had a brain......
.......I could see the world so simply.”
“Babble babble bleep snork I got one too and mine's bigger than yours babble babble babble oh yeah, well mine is smarter babble babble god bless america babble babble free mumia now babble babble gott mit uns whistle hum does your chewing gum lose its flavor on the bedpost over night yackety yack mine is the bestest one that ever was babble yack my hockey team can beat your hockey team buzz buzz oh yeah, how many stanley cups have they won? chatter chatter dubya's an idiot babble babble babble oh yeah? Gore's a wimp! chatter babble yackety yack!”
“Neo-Conservatism is something that started around the time of Reagan.
The basic beliefs are tax cuts and increased spending. If you remember "Trickle Down Economics", you will re member is focused on giving taxcuts to the top wage earners with the goal being increased spending by them, and that would cause a trickle down effect. It didn't work for Reagan because people and companies decided to take a profit and didn't increase spending. Layoffs are also rampant, decreasing spending through layoffs allowed companies to increase the amount of the profit.
Neo-Cons are about allowing big business complete freedom while squeezing the freedoms of the individual.
The Administrations of Reagan and GHW Bush were very corrupt. Look up Iran Contra, check out Caspar Weinberger. Neo-Cons seem to have a flexible ingtegrity that seems to dictate "the ends justify the means". I think they are dispicable and morally bankrupt... then again I feel that about virtually all politicians...
No Reagan didn't invent the internet...”
“babble babble blah blah invented the internet yackety yack put that in your pipe and smoke it chatter chatter and the horse you rode in on babble babble”
“Reagan didn't beat no communists......ask the Chinese.
Lech What's-his-name did.
Breaking labor is anti-democratic”
The argument settled
“Of course if you want to see who can be the bigger idiot..."
"I CAN BE THE BIGGER IDIOT!!!!!"
“Tom, how exactly is it anti-democratic?”
“Reagan didn't beat no communists......ask the Chinese
Or the FORMER Soviet Union? I guess I was mistaken, I thought they were commies.”
They have a web site
“That's some funky design!”
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