State of the Union

“I think it was $1.2 billion for the hydrogen car. Whatever happened to the $1.4 billion we gave the automakers for the 70-80 mpg 'supercar'?

I do see energy as a national security issue. I'd prefer a tax incentive for consumers to purchase efficient vehicles. Let the automakers spend their own money chasing the consumer's dollar. Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?


I didn't hear anything new regarding Iraq. I thought we were promised something. Now we wait another week for Powell.”

“Mutt - You ingorant slut! I love ya, couldn't have put it better myself. As I've said before, I watched the State of The Union address from Nixon's last year and he was saying the same stuff as Bush was saying.

I was a card carrying Republican for YEARS (I declared my party pref at the age of 6) until The Clinton/Bush race, I voted Perot. Republicans policy is nothing but a bunch of bull -----that's not to leave out that the Dems are full of BULL also. We need true leaders that will take care of business and not just line the pockets of there buds, Repub or Dem.

MUTT FOR PREZ!!!”

“Powell has been lookin' weak”

“I'm a Texan ---- he's a Texan >>>>>>> do the math...........he's the man”

“Poweel has this look in his eyes like he doesn't like what he's doing, but doing it anyways. Not taking the Bellefonte raod here, I just don't think he really believes in what going on here. Well see what kind of stuff they let'em release to the UN on Wednesday. That should be interesting. I think that soon after that speach, we're going in, as Buch will think he has proven his point. Also, they fight against time as he wants our troops to fight in the Iraqi Spring, instead of the summer.”

“could I frickin' spell any better??? ggeeezzzzzzz...”

“Good thing Bubya ain't French, no?”

“Well thanks, laqtis. But I'm not corrupt enough to be Prez!

And you're right about Powell, and Tom is only partially correct. Powell has been instrumental in restraining Bush and shaping foreign policy. His recent support for war - perhaps weak on the surface - is a smart ploy to remain in power and fight another day. Without Powell, Rummy and Wolfy would have probably nuked Iraq by now.”

“Springtime for Dubya and Amerika!

(cue the dancers)”

“Springtime for Dubya and Amerika!

(cue the dancers)”

“...winter for Sodomee and Iraq”

“This is an excerpt from a Discover magazine article from October 2002. This guy was test driving three models that will be in production soon (whatever soon means).

During my test-drives, I found the Japanese fuel cell vehicles responsive, virtually silent, and just plain fun. Surprisingly, both were hybrids. In addition to the fuel cell, they incorporated a secondary power source to help with acceleration and hill climbing. "Hybridizing between a fuel cell and a battery just makes sense," said Toyota engineer Justin Ward as we zoomed along in his company's roomy FCHV-4, a modified version of the Highlander SUV. "A fuel cell likes to run at a steady load, so when you stomp on the pedal, it really helps to have the battery to give you a boost," Ward said. Drawing on its experience with the gas-electric Prius sedan, Toyota put the exact same nickel-metal hydride battery pack into this vehicle. The car's regenerative braking also recouped energy that would otherwise be lost as heat. Acceleration was brisk, and the soft whirr from the 80-kilowatt, 107-horsepower electric motor made for a civilized driving experience. With a reported top speed of 93 miles per hour, the car seemed ready for the American highway.

I will be one of the first in line when they are available to the public!!”

“In referance to cars.....

Go back at look at gas mileage for models of cars that have been around since the 80's.

You will actually see that most gas mileage for those models have gone down!

Approximately 40% of this years automobile sales will be SUVs.

As for H2 power we discussed it in Physics class today.
The problem is how do we get the H2?”

“Isn't Powell one of the people who convinced Bush Sr not to go on and take out Iraq, if he is why would you listen to him now. I know the UN said we couldn't cross that imaginary line then but it looks like we will be doing it now so what difference would it have made. We are going to make someone mad no matter what we do. If we had taken Iraq yrs ago we might not have the problems we are having now.

The tax cuts are good but how is the goverment going to fund the things he wants to do with less money.

What the goverment needs to do is levy a huge tax on the companies who moved there manufacturing facilites to Mexico but kept there corporate offices here.

NAFTA needs to be repealed.
Perot was the only candidate who saw what NAFTA would do to this country. I voted for him during that election and i just wish that he had had a good VP that yr instead of what he had.”

“exactly - fuel cells and batteries may be clean energy up front, but the technologies behind the scene are quite dirty. How much coal is burned to recharge those batteries?”

“Why can't Bush tell the truth?"
Mutt
08:32:38 AM
01/29/03

This is something called a fact Mutt:

Sat, Feb 01
5:10pm Depart - New York-Kennedy (JFK) Air France 23
6:00am Arrive - Paris de Gaulle, France (CDG) Nonstop
Total travel time: 6hrs 50min

It's called a one way ticket to France. Have at it Mr. Lewis!

All aboard!”

“Mutt Considering that a car now has a battery and is using gasoline and oil. I think any move in limiting any of those 3 is good for me.”

“Buddha, how 'bout refuting my position with an actual argument?

And if you're paying, I'll gladly vacation in France!”

“Tango, true, but my point was that the energy required to charge batteries and produce hydrogen negates the pollution savings of the new techs. Some source of energy use will be utilized, and it's probably going to be coal.

Until a renewable resource is developed that inexpensively and cleanly produces electricity, then it's going to be fossil fuels that power these new fuel technologies. Thus, the gains are just not there - yet.

Besides, gasoline has the best power to weight ratio of any currently feasible fuel for autos. As long as that's the case, coupled with dirty energy behind the scenes, I don't see that these newer technologies will be utilized much in the near to mid term.”

“Ewker - you that big sucking sound too?? :)”

“Mutt,

You would have to actually have a credible arguement first, and I don't think that's possible.

I know liberals like you, I work with them. You Dashlesian rants are based on your self-proclaimed intellectualism, and you use sources that are extremely biased, if any at all.

It's funny, when I was invited to a liberal "think tank" after the elections, I observed about 50 "Mutt's" clamoring for a reason why the Democrats got their a$$es handed to them in the election. I must have heard a zillion different conspiracy theories concerning oil, JFK, or how the Ozone was about to come crashing down on us.

I spoke up once, when I asked what their candidates had to offer common folks. I never got a logical answer, and I don't expect any from the likes of you either.

Have fun, go protest something!”

“Nothing new here either.”

“You would have to actually have a credible arguement first, and I don't think that's possible.

ad hom, ad hom, ad hom...

That's it? Why bother? If you want to show I'm not credible, you should make a case for it. Otherwise, we can go back and forth: you're wrong, no you're wrong, no you're wrong. Or are you going to pull a stratdewd and crybaby about me being mean?

I think you're falling into the fashionable neocon fallacy of deriding everyone left of your extremist political position as "commie pinkos". I'm actually best described as centrist, thank you very much.”

“"Your enemy is not surrounding your country. Your enemy is ruling your country."

-Saddam to the US”

“No, I'm the centrist! I called it a long time ago.”

“Violin - who would you rather believe, Saddam or Bush?”

“no, buddha, you actually have to have a critically evaluated, self-justified political perspective to be considered a legitimate participant in a political camp.”

“Sounds like a pretty boring camp to me. When they do panty raids, are they always attacking your bunk?

lol!”

“Looks like I've kicked the dog enough on this.”

“Mutt

Honda Civic. "One unique thing about our technology is we use an ultra-capacitor rather than a battery to assist the fuel cell," said Honda engineer Steve Mathison. A capacitor stores electricity in a physical form—on a pair of metal plates that accumulate positive and negative charges—rather than in a chemical form, as batteries do. Capacitors can acquire and discharge voltage more quickly than batteries can.

Honda is addressing some of your concerns!”

“Ewker - you that big sucking sound too?? :)"
laqtis
09:55:19 AM
01/29/03

I know I am missing something here”

“Artex - Oops! That line was actually from Bush's speach. My bad.

Please see the pre-apology thread.”

“Ewker - That's in reference to the stance Perot had about NAFTA. He saud that soon after enacted, .."there would be this huge sucking sound coming from Mexico..". He was talking about how many jobs would be lost south of the border due to NAFTA”

“As to the home front...too many "shoulds." Once the Congress whittles all his stuff down, there won't be much left. As to Iraq...I'll wait until Powell makes his presentation to the UN.

Bush never really laid out proof of anything, and if he does have proof, why isn't he giving the coordinates to Hans Blix and the UN.

Can't blame the economy on Bill Clinton anymore, Bush had been in there over two years...not a helluva lot has happened in the past year except everyone's assets have plunged, unemployment is high, and state budgets are screaming for help. No where in his speech last night did he even mention corportate America.”

“Sure had a lot to say about bin Laden too.”

“This thread needs pictures (as violin might say)!

”

“laqtis, I gotcha now. I thought that is what you meant just wanted to be sure. The VP that Perot had was a loser, he looked so out of place when they had the VP debates. If Perot had gotten a well know person who both parties could work with he might have made a huge impact. I think what Perot said was what most of the American people were saying. He was a business man who understood what it would cost us where Bush Sr & Clinton were polticians who did not understand.

As far as a car that will run on hydrogen I don't think the oil companies or car mfgs are going to allow it. they haven't done anything in 30 or more yrs so why should they start now. I hope I am wrong but only tme will tell.

As far as ANWR, open up the 1000's of capped oil wells in this country and stop selling the oil and gas from the Alaskan pipleine to Japan, S. Korea and other countries.

Since Bush has cut back on the pollution standards those old refineries should be able to reopen now which would mean new jobs for the people. Of course trying to get the companies to reopen them may be a problem.

I wish I could find the article where the oil companies said it was cheaper to buy oil from the Middle East than it was to reopen the capped oil wells here. IMO the reason they don't want to open the oil wells here is that it would cut into their profits and they don't want that.”

“Oh yay. Bush pledges some money for hydrogen cell research. Hmmm. Let's see all the environmental damage the man has done since taking office:

As Ewker mentioned, rolled back pollution controls for big business; turned down new fuel efficiency standards for vehicles being produced; eased FERC licensing standards; lifted the roadless initiative; lifted the snowmobile ban in some of our great wilderness areas; wouldn't sign the Kyoto Treaty; etc., etc.

So don't go around patting yourselves on the back about how this guy cares about the environment. It's pretty clear he doesn't.”

“The economy will be important. When he came in, there were big budget surpluses - now the deficits are ballooning incredibly.

If the economy booms - people will blame 9/11 and other factors for the deficit - and point to job growth.

Thus far, the country has lost jobs under Bush. He has plenty of time to turn this around though - if not, however, he will be the first president since before WWII to have a net loss of jobs during his term - that will hurt him big if he runs for re-election.”

“Seriously. I want to know where the money for a $200 billion war, a $100 billion "missile defense system" and the biggest tax cut in history is going to come from?”

“On Perot: I had hopes for him once. I was hoping that he would build a party that could do something.

Ewker is right on Perot's VP candidate - I felt bad for the guy when I saw him in the debate... he didn't look like he belonged in a debate, let alone in elective office.

Ultimately, I think Perot was much more interested in his profile than in building a party. That was Perot's right, but I was hoping he'd shake something up. The Democrats as a group seemt to have no courage and no vision and most of them seem to be just looking for angles to play. The Republicans have a vision - and some of them have courage - but I definitely do not like where they seem to be heading.”

“I like the part he said about destroying China with nuclear weapons if they piss us off again.”

“Mutt

Honda Civic. "One unique thing about our technology is we use an ultra-capacitor rather than a battery

Cool! I like the idea. I have one of those capacitor/LED flashlights in my car - no batteries to go dead. Pretty neat technology.”

“I agree roseymonster, Bush doesn't know what the word "environment" means. He's really pissed me off with everything he's undone over the last couple of years.

I also wanted to hear Bush address education more. Right here in southern Indiana our schools are in crisis.

Due to state budget cuts and other factors, Evansville, Vanderburgh county schools just two days ago slashed millions of dollars out of their budget.

What went? School nurses, teachers aides, stipends for extracurricular activities and sports, insurance, after school activities.... the list goes on.

They talked about shutting down the school system's team sports until they dig out.

I don't know enough about the issue to know where the fault lies, but I know it wasn't with the kids that are paying the price!”

“has anyone seen the keys to my expedition?”

“I listened to the speach and didn't hear anything new. Bubya is getting better at his delivery though.

I look foward to hearing about the "proof" on Feb 5th when it's presented to the UN.”

“baume, yes, they're in your rear with your head”

“regan (sic) doubled revenues in 8 years from tax cuts.

- stratdewd
07:42:37 AM
01/29/03

I’m not one to attack another’s religion, but that’s simple deception.


The IRS figures below show federal tax collections both is nominal dollars and ‘constant’ dollars (adjusted for inflation) expressed in billions.

Year Nominal Constant (87 dollars)
1980 $517.1 728.1
1981 599.3 766.6
1982 617.8 738.2
1983 600.6 684.3
1984 666.6 730.4
1985 734.1 776.6
1986 769.1 790.0
1987 854.1 854.1
1988 909.0 877.3
1989 990.7 916.2
1990 1031.3 914.1
1991 1054.3 894.7
1992 1090.5 895.1

While nominal collections did increase, in real dollars it was more like 20%. I guess you could say inflation doubled revenues – not Reagan.

You can also see that real collections actually fell for two years following the 1981 tax cuts. Puzzling huh?

“But then they went up”, you say? Well yes but then Reagan wasn’t the tax cutter that you may remember him to be. Just one year after the 1981 cuts, he signed off on a three year $100 billion increase in 1982. Faced with looming deficits and the loss of 26 seats in the 1982 mid-term elections, Reagan raised the gasoline tax in 1983. He then closed many business loopholes in 1984 resulting in a tax increase of $50 billion over three years. In 1986 he raised corporate taxes by $120 billion over 5 years and closed loopholes worth about $300 billion over the same period.



The average annual real growth of tax collections by president is as follows:

President Annual Growth
Roosevelt 121.3%
Truman 3.7%
Eisenhower 2.4%
Kennedy 4.8%
Johnson 6.9%
Nixon 0.3%
Ford 6.4%
Carter 3.0%
Reagan 2.4%
Bush -0.0%”

“moutainmaster, if you'll read has blix' report, ,he said many time that the infractions they found were from intelligence tips.

ped, there were never a real surplus. it was progected, just like the defecit is.

job loss sucks, but 6% is still pretty good. rich people create jobs through investing, spending and owning businesses. steimy them and you hurt the economy.


mutt, you like mean people? that explains alot.....


violin, what was clinton's. i said revenue biotch....


Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein faced the prospect of being the
last casualty in a war he had started and lost. To spare himself,
he agreed to disarm of all weapons of mass destruction. For the
next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He
pursued chemical, biological and nuclear weapons even while
inspectors were in his country.

Almost three months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave
Saddam Hussein his final chance to disarm. He has shown instead
his utter contempt for the United Nations, and for the opinion of
the world. ... The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam
Hussein had biological weapons materials sufficient to produce over
25,000 liters of anthrax.... Our intelligence officials estimate
that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500
tons of sarin, mustard, and VX nerve agent. ... U.S. intelligence
indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions
capable of delivering chemical agents. ... From three Iraqi
defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile
biological weapons labs. ... The International Atomic Energy Agency
confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear
weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon,
and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium
for a bomb. ... He has not accounted for these materials. He has
given no evidence that he has destroyed them. The dictator of
Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary, he is deceiving.

With nuclear arms ... Saddam Hussein could resume his
ambitions.... Evidence from intelligence sources, secret
communications, and statements by people now in custody, reveal
that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members
of al-Qa'ida. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide
one of his hidden weapons to terrorists.... It would take just
one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to
bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will
do everything in our power to make sure that day never comes.
Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since
when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions,
politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat
is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words
and all recriminations would come too late.

Tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of
Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country -- your enemy
is ruling your country. And the day he and his regime are removed
from power will be the day of your liberation. ...

The world has waited 12 years for Iraq to disarm. America will not
accept a serious and mounting threat to our country, our friends,
and our allies. The United States will ask the UN Security Council
to convene on February 5th to consider the facts of Iraq's ongoing
defiance of the world. Secretary of State Powell will present
information and intelligence about Iraq's illegal weapons programs;
its attempts to hide those weapons from inspectors; and its links
to terrorist groups.

Tonight I also have a message for the men and women who will keep
the peace, members of the American armed forces: Many of you are
assembling in and near the Middle East, and some crucial hours
may lie ahead. In those hours, the success of our cause will
depend on you. Your training has prepared you. Your honor will
guide you. You believe in America, and America believes in you.

We seek peace. We strive for peace. And sometimes peace must be
defended. A future lived at the mercy of terrible threats is
no peace at all. If war is forced upon us, we will fight in a
just cause and by just means -- sparing, in every way we can,
the innocent. And if war is forced upon us, we will fight with
the full force and might of the United States military -- and we
will prevail.”

“He sounded like a D lastnight...

as for the Hydrogen car, what a bunch of CRAP! If he really wants to lower tax and help the environment how about giving tax breaks for people who buy electric or hybrid cars now?

The Hydrogen car is just to take the heat off of car companies now, they don't have to bring mpg's down now, there's gonna be a super car that runs on baking soda! It will save the WORLD! Can we all sing kum by ya now?”