Rock Climbing

“Anyone familiar with the Challenge Rock Climbing School in North Georgia?”

“Cool.

Hmmm... Northeast? Northwest?”

“Interesting.”

“Are you asking about this one ?”

“Thats right skullcap.”

“does anyone do any rock climbing on here?”

“I climb, often in middle tennessee”

“u have mail”

“but my damn bro-inlaw is being a lsacker and wont call him :(”

“Yes,
Ralph Stover in Pa
Gunks in NY

Nearest gym is Doylestown Pa.”

“thanks, manuka.

i guess the best way is to start in an indoor gym and then work your way to an outdoor setup?

i've only been rock climbing once, when i went over to japan... if you can call it rock climbing, i was awful at it.”

“Gym not best way to learn, it is the best way to improve technique and train unfamiliar muscles but is different from real rock.

Gyms also vary a lot in quality.

Gym is pretty much handholds that stick out and are readily identifiable from surrounding wall.

Rock evenly divided between protusions and cracks etc that go into the rock, pretty much all the same color and you have to feel how to use it, or whether to use it at all. Unless some slob has chalked the h3ll out of the climb you also have to work out where the line goes.

Good gyms will have texture on the wall and the wall will vary from verticle, but this is pretty limited. A verticle wall puts a lot more strain on your arms/fingers.

Rock is seldom verticle so a lot more goes on your feet and you do use the wall itself with no holds for friction to climb.

Cannot really learn to lead climb in a gym as leading is mainly evaluating your position and how to protect yourself and your partner if someone falls, and followers still need to free up one hand to remove the protection placed by the leader. Also carrying stuff while climbing is not normally practised in the gym.”

“Whatever you do, take the course. There are a lot of very dangerous people out there ('A little learning is a dangerous thing - Alexander Pope).

When we put in a climbing wall at our school, the senior Phys. Ed. teacher took a 'course' and then supposedly trained us. Well, when our school decided to offer an Outdoor Ed. option and asked me to do it I asked for a budget to get instructor certification in any activity that might involve risk.

I got in touch with the Alpine Club of Canada and started taking courses - I had already taken their avalanche rescue and the glacier travel and crevasse rescue courses. Their courses are all UIAA (Union internationale des associations d'alpinisme - Switzerland) sanctioned.

Well I started to develop anxiety in the first ten minutes of my first course. I went back to school and showed the Phys Ed teachers a couple of the things we were doing dangerously wrong. With their agreement I went to the boss and showed her and the Vice-Head (and good friend at whose house I broke my ankle - ya, ya, I know) the same things.

Not even our harnesses passed inspection - I'm going to mention the product's name here if if they want to sue me, phuck THEM - they could kill a kid.

I am a nationally certified Level II rugby coach and we learn and the referees insist on the verification of the field, the equipment (cleats, IRB sanctioned padding, et c.) and player eligibility. We had learned none of that, i.e., how does one check the wall and the holds? How does one check the equipment - harnesses, ropes, carabiners and descenders? What are the instructor/climber/belayer ratios?

Our Misty Mountain harnesses were not only no longer serviceable, they were unacceptable when new and were neither UIAA nor CE (Comité européeen de normalisation) certified. This is a problem with some US manufactureres who nevertheless claim their equipment meets or exceeds UIAA or CE standards.

DO NOT CLIMB OR PERMIT OTHERS TO CLIMB WITHOUT THE UIAA OR CE CERTIFICATION TAB ON ALL - I REPEAT - ALL YOUR GEAR.

And, please, take a recognised and sanctioned course. Join the American Alpine Club and sign up for their courses, they are inexpensive for members and recognised internationally.”

“There are a number of AMA accredited climbing courses in the area.

BUT

you get a much better bang for your buck by spending $25 and reading John Long's books "how to Rock Climb" and "Climbing Anchors" and then getting a personal guide for a day at the Gunks. Yes get the guide from one of the accredited guide services.

Just getting on a course you will learn the basic knots in 10 minutes then wait 50 minutes for the slowest class member to 'get it' and the rest of the day will procede the same.

Alternative which is NOT what Gremlin is recommending is to read the 2 books, then observe some climbers in a gym and learn to recognize safe vs unsafe practises.

The person belaying you has your life in their hands, how much attention are they paying ??

Gear - certification only means it was safe when it first left the factory, does not mean squat after the first fall, which BTW you were not there to see. A good start but nothing replaces personal inspection.”

“I am just goona learn from a guy that is like a pro at it!

The dudes uncle is the founder of Kelty, I think he knows what he is doing!!”

“BL, doesn't matter how long you have been doing it there is always the capacity to forget something and gravity never takes a day off.

The book 'Accidents in North American Mountaineering' shows quite clearly, year after year, that accidents are evenly divided among climbers from the novices to the super experienced.

Great that you have access to an experienced mentor, like getting a pro guide for free, but do yourself a favor and spend $25 bucks and a couple of hours to read those 2 books. The guide will appreciate that you have taken the time to learn the really boring stuff so he/she can get onto more advanced techniques faster.

You can also use the book to show the guide stuff that you do not understand and get a clearer explanation.

Also, who knows, you may catch the one mistake that may save the guides life, every climber I know can relate to an error they have made.”

“thanks for everyone's input... once i get some initial gear, i'll start looking into these different options.

thanks again!”

“ScorchFire - try the library for the John Long books. Either college or local public.

Before you spend precious and scarce $$$ on gear post a ?? thread.

All you really need to start is a harness, shoes, and helmet. Yeah a blood bucket is a good idea.

Trouble is shoes cost a bunch and fit is critical. $100 -$130
Hats, most good ones are adjustable so 1 size fits all, but get one that has retainers for a headlamp for later mountaineering.
$60 - $70
Harness - would you believe that we are NOT all created equal ? women have different hip shapes than men (can you believe that??) and women have differeent hip shapes from other women.
Needs to be comfortable, have dropable leg loops (potty while still tied in) and preferably 4 gear loops. Absolutely MUST MUST ride high enough to go over the top of your hip bone to hold you in while upside down. $30 -$60

Now you are ready for top roping outdoors (stover park) or gym indoors.

2 locking carabiners $20
1 Belay/rappel device $15 - recommend Black Diamond ATC.
4x 2 foot slings and you are ready for following a leader.

Do haunt REI-Outlet.com for climbing gear except harness and shoes.
Get them from a store as fit is critical.

Shoes - different manufacturers and models have different foot shapes. They should be a tight but not painful exact fit to your foot either barefoot or with liner socks only.
2 lasts (bottoms) slip (slipper) or Board. Board is better for beginners expecting to be outside on rock all day as foot muscles are not strong enough...yet.
If only top roping, or gym climbing, or after you have been climbing a couple of years, get slip lasted shoes. Much more sensitive for small bumps and smear on rock better.”

“where were you when i started out, i just went for it all and got just about everything.”

“yea, well i don't have the money to just get everything, BL, unless of course, you're buyin ; )”

“Broken (and I mean broken in this case) Lizard, that is just the sort off messup that gets people killed.

Indoor gyms - if they have qualified instructors are fine for learning the basics of knots, belaying and movement. Books are invaluable, but they are not an instructor and cannot correct your errors of application.

If you know an expert and he's a real expert, he'll strongly advise you to take a recognised course before he lets you climb with him.

Trust me on this.”

“I can say something else dumb if u want”

“Nope, that's fine (chuckle).”

“I'm thinking about a two day class at CO Mtn School in Estes Park on July 30 & 31 - anyone else interested?”

“I'm interested but not sure about $$$,

Are you going to buy your own shoes beforehand?

If so, we can go bouldering whenever you want.”

“Sierra Trading Post. com often has good deals on climbing gear, particularly shoes.”

“shoes harness and helmet their website says are required before you do the class. they provide everything else.

Yeah, its kind of expensive, i know.”

“Roam Around, you can probably make the money go furthur with a little self study before the course. Get better use of the guides time by knowing some of the basic knots and terminology before you go.

3 books, John Longs "how to rock climb" $14.35, and "Climbing anchors" $12.95".
and the classic "Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills" by the Mountaineers staff $23.96.

Learn how to tie- figure 8 feedback, the water knot, grapevine, and double fisherman knot on your own time, not on the time you are paying the guide.

Spend the money on helmet, and shoes, after some research. Helmet is no big deal but make sure it does have a headlight retaining system. Shoes must NOT hurt. Some morons say they should be too small, they should be very very snug, but not tight. As close as possible to an exact fit to your foot. Forget the internet, go to a real store and try on every shoe they have. 150ft off the ground, 3 hours climbing to go is no place to have feet hurting like h3ll.

Rent the harness, buy one later when you know what you like, or get a BD Bod harness which is a good all around. Try gearexpress.com. Singing rock make good, cheap, harnesses but the fit is a lot more specific than the BD.

Also get a tuber belay device, lots of them on the market (BD - ATC, DMM - Bug, Wild Country -Variable, Trango Pyramid) I do not like the Trango jaws as it grips the rope too much. All of them are in the $15-$20 range. And one large pear-shaped locking carabiner for your belay device (BD Airlock is good).


Good luck, it is a lot of fun.”

“thanks for the advice.

apparantly i now live pretty close to a large chunk of rock climbing and bouldering nirvanna - I feel obligated to take advantage of it. :D”

“You are obligated.

I have found some good bouldering here in africa. Untapped. It just finding someone to go with that I don't think is a complete idiot.

~BW”

“The only obligation is regret.
Sitting in the wheelchair at 95 saying "coulda, woulda, shoulda"

Grab every opportunity to live life.”

“you said it!!!!”

“Ok, did a two hour intro class in a gym tonight - this climbing stuff is AWESOME.

she taught us the figure 8 basic knot and how to use a belay device and then we did some basic moves on a 5.6 and 5.7 as well as on the bouldering problem in the gym. Pretty good stuff.

Had a ton of fun and feel like I learned a fair amount for the two hours we were there.

Thursday night is another two hour session.”

“oh yeah - manuka - I got those books and they were helpful - I was slightly ahead of the curve on technique just from reading about some basics in those books.

Thanks!”

“Is this a series of classes?

Looking forward to hearing about Thursday night.

Have fun!”

“Manuka and Gremlin have given some really good advice.

As a reality check, one thing I always told folks about climbing and mountaineering is.... if you do it long enough, people you know will die.

Enjoy and stay safe.
last edited: 6/15/05 1:05:27 AM”

“climbing in a gym is fun, but once you do it on real rock youll never go back to the artificial stuff

once youve had rock, youll never go ummmm bock”

“lol, Crash.

Yeah - the instructor was big on pointing out the different ways to get lazy and stupid; and thus dead.

Its a two class series. The gym offers a second and third class as well, but the intro class is just two sessions.

www.innerstrengthrock.com
last edited: 6/15/05 7:36:16 AM”

“It's supposed to rain this week-end. The Alpine Club of Canada is offering a rock workshop and I was hoping to get into some trad, but I'll be reffing a rugby match Saturday instead (75$ and free beer).

Have fun.

Doug”

“Pickup the book "Climbing accidents in North America". It tells you all the stupid ways to get hurt and sometimes very dead. Its not ment to frighten you, but to open your eyes to what really happens when yo're tired, fooling around or just not paying attention.”

“dang Gremlin, free beer! COOL!”

“MtnSteve

"if you do it long enough, people you know will die."

No one leaves this life alive. If you live long enough people you know will die.

Early death, most of the people I know who died really young did so on motorcycles, and there were quite a few.”

“Roam Around, good deal, glad you are off to a good start.

Watch the women climb, not just for eye candy although that is good, but because they have less upper body strength they rely much more on balance, shifting body weight from one foot to the other. Can learn a lot.”

“Perhaps it's who you know. Most of my friends are climbers and mountaineers.

I lost three friends in two years due to climbing accidents, Amy lost two partners in a year. We were BS's the other day at work (Yates) and realized that among the 4 of us, 13 of our buds had died in the last 10 years, all climbing related. I raced motorcycles for 6 years, only had one bud that died.

Life's a risk.”

“manuka, the instructor pointed that same fact out, that women beginners had a big advantage by being forced to rely on legs and balance vs. arm strength.

You could really tell when you were doing it right too I noticed, the moves felt fluid and smooth vs. tight and clingy.

Good stuff, man. Good stuff.”

“To paraphrase Manuka....men tend to climb with their arms, women climb with their legs.”

“the bouldering problems at the gym pretty much force to use your legs, noone could hang onto that thing using just arm strength.”

“Men .. TRY .. to use their arms, but generally the arms trash out pretty quick.

Finger strength exercises are good, but be careful as pulled finger tendons is probably the #1 injury.

Balance rules”

“the bouldering thing was an exercise and lesson in physics, useing opposition and such.

Gravity works well and pendulum effects suck.

LOL”

“i went guided climbing in new river gorge in wv a few years ago, top-roped a 5.8 and a 5.10. had trouble with the two 5.9's i tackled. lots of horizontal climbing with smear holds involved, not very good at that. wish i could afford to buy my own equipment so i could do it regularly”