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Can't believe no one has mentioned Yates
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“As much BSing and chatter that goes on around here, I can't believe no one has mentioned the Yates trial.”
“It is easy to know how to feel but very difficult to know what to think.
Last night the subject came up very briefly with the kids, and my wife's answer to "why" was that she is a very sick woman.
So I feel like a slime because I, also, think she must be sick, yet I am glad she will be punished. I am very conflicted.”
“She is being punished for being mentally ill and not successfully treated.
She should not have been allowed to be solely responsible for five children's welfare all day, for days on end. She was mentally incapable of handling that kind of stress. Some people who were close to her were aware to some extent that she was struggling with mental illness. How do we identify people suffering from a condition that puts other people at risk, and protect those other people? That should be the issue, not whether Yates should be "punished" (being seriously mentally ill is a form of punishment, too). She should be in a mental institution, not prison.”
“For sure, Splash (and it did briefly surface on at least one other thread, Trailhound). I also wonder a lot about the husband. Where the hell was he?
I'm thinking the insanity issue would be better left to the punitive phase of the trial, not as a determining factor of guilt or innocence.
Right off the bat, I'll say that I'm not a big fan of capital punishment in general. Too many people are no longer on Death Row because of DNA evidence. It makes me wonder how many innocent people may have been put to death. In cases of the violent mentally ill, as long as they NEVER get out, I'll be satisfied... like if life sentences were actually 'life' sentences.
I don't know what these institutions are like (and I don't plan on finding out anytime soon), but I wonder if some prisons need to be more like mental institutions or mental institutions need to be more like prisons for cases like this... ?”
“Yes, mental illness is a reason...not an EXCUSE. Even if we have a reason or excuse responsability should be taken. We are responsable to each other for our actions and our actions have effects on those around us.
G-d bless Texas.”
“Dang! I forgot the Alamo.”
“The issue of whether they ever get out exists whether they go to prison or a mental hospital. So many people were hurt in this incident. Yates' future is ruined. Five small children are gone in a frightening manner. Her husband's reaction seems inhumanly kind towards his wife. This makes me very suspicious of his involvement or possible culpability.
I believe that it is too late to treat Yates and then release her to society. If she can live with what she has done, then she is still sick. Catch 22.”
“" believe that it is too late to treat Yates and then release her to society."
I agree it's a catch 22, but this is my big problem. Either they go light and she walks eventually or they go full bore on her. I'd rather see them go full bore on a murderer than ever let them be free again.”
“Would she have thought differently with less kids?
Are those kids to blame for her illness?
Tilt are you casting a shadow over the father...
I believe the father work his tail off everyday and returned home every evening to his wife and kids. I don't believe he was 'distant' by any stretch of means. By all accounts he has remained by her side though everything she has gone through. If he is guilty of anything it is fact that he didn't take action sooner with this crazied woman and leave with the kids. I doubt there is a court room in the U.S. that would have denied him custody after seeing her track record of mental illness.
She is the only one to blame, here. The prosecutors did a fine job for the most part in proving their case but they have left a door open that may come back to haunt them if they press further. Even though its happening in Texas I don't think she'll get the chair.”
“This type of incident happens over and over again. Not just women, but a lot of men wipe out their families too. Usually they kill themselves as well. Over and over again I wonder what society can do to protect those helpless children without damaging shaky families where the parents are not future murderers.”
“Briar Rabbit, this husband continued to father children with a woman who was mentally coming undone. Pregnancy is frequently the time when mental instability comes to light or gets bad enough to not be ignored. Then you have the lack of sleep endured when raising a new baby and young siblings who also get up at night due to colds/allergies/whatever. Sometimes health issues have to overrule religious beliefs about not using birth control, or a couple's yearning for more children. Maybe the husband did nothing wrong, but he could have done more right, since he was in control and she wasn't.”
“"If he is guilty of anything it is fact that he didn't take action sooner with this crazied woman and leave with the kids."
Either that, or failing that, get her some Serious Help (like the in-patient variety) before this tragedy could occur. Did he just not see?”
“And why did she not seak help for herself while we're at it. Let's face it kids, we've all (most of us) have had a good case of the blues before and we know something's not quite right.”
“I doubt if she spoke to him about her 'crazy' thoughts of harming the kids. She was getting treatment for years and a doctor had reportedly told her not to have any more children after her last postpartum depression. I guess that by continuing to father children and let her home school them, staying under stress for 24 hours per day, he does bear some blame.
I think this tragedy would only be compounded if she receives the death penalty. I’m not sure if the state could possibly punish her any more than her conscience will. I think she obviously belongs in a mental hospital.”
“It seems clear enough that the woman did the awful deed and that she will be dealt with by the judicial system.
I don't see any of the penalty choices as "going light".
life without parole
It has come to light recently that the husband put this woman through his version of god's will.
They were not members of any organized religion.
At some point he got it in his head to sell all or most worldly possessions and move into a trailer.
He also thought it was her place to stay home and have as many children "as god would give them".
He relented on the house issue and bought another house......she was losin' it.
A close woman friend of hers told the husband that she needed help NOW, not tomorrow, not next week.....NOW!!!
From these accounts it seems clear that the man was a bit looney himself.
He was able to escape the lunacy at home by going to work while she was living like a domestic slave.
This fundamentalist "head of household" mentality can be very demanding of a woman while the "man" can be of very little actual help at home.
Most of what a guy like that does is bring home the money and issue demands and orders some of which are based solely on biblical standards or his interpretation thereof.
Anyone ever had a boss who just couldn't be pleased?”
“When I ask this Tom I am not making fun but am serious: do you have a link you can share to that info?”
“Her own statements claim her oldest was able to raise his head out of the water and say "I'm sorry mommy".
I can't get this out of my mind.”
“Try NPR All Things Considered.
There might be a link to the story.
I believe I heard it one afternoon last week......while I was yelling at the kids and trying to prepare dinner.....ya know, the usual housewife stuff.....these kids are drivin' me crazy!
From watching Perry Mason years ago I picked up on the term "mental cruelty" as being commonly used in divorce cases.”
“There are some men who specialize in isolating their wives and making sure that there is nothing in their lives but the husband and the children. My sister lives in such a house with five children, in a city far away from any of her family. I have seen how easy it is to brainwash a shy, kind, generous and intelligent woman. Happily, my sister is still sane; she has an enormous amount of patience. There are not a lot of men like her husband, but there are some and this is why this subject gets me going. Those of you who have daughters want to keep an eye out for this type of guy. Once they have children the brainwashing begins in earnest. Like, if you don't do this, I'll take the baby and move far away and you'll never see her again. You are nothing, and no one will believe you. You can't have credit cards, you can't go shopping without me, you can't leave the house without calling me at work and telling me where you are going first, etc...... It is impossible for me to understand why she put up with all that, but she did because she feared that she would lose her kids. She couldn't take that chance.”
“Oh, that's sick!
A lot of kids think that domestic problems are their fault.”
“I heard that on the radio on the way home last night. I had to pull over; I couldn't see. I ain't done that since my grandpa died 20 yrs ago.”
“I agree, LeSubtil, it is heartbreaking what those kids went through.”
“She's been tried, now she should be fried.
Sane or insane, either way, fry her. What do you want? A bunch homicidal crazies walking around?”
“Compassionate conservatism in action! Baso, dude, yer a straight shooter and we can never let it be said we donít know where you stand. Never change dude!”
Men like that are like the Taliban.
Sometimes a mental beating can be worse than a physical one.
That kind of male behavior is a throw-back to primal ape-like humanoids.
There is a woman here who escaped from a man like that.
He is from somewhere in the Middle East.
He has threatened to take her 7 year old son back to the old country if he finds out that she has tried to marry another man or even have a relationship.
She at least got the creep out of the house but I think he refuses divorce.”
“Just kill her...I have no sympathy for any one who did what she did... I don't care how messed up mentally she is...no excuse. I hope if I ever go off the deep end like her that someone will kill me!!
I mean damn't we're talking about KILLING YOUR OWN CHILDREN! No one is to blame but her, typical of so many people in society today...always looking for the complex reason. Sometimes it's simple...she's a wack job!!”
Just change yer diapers.....please!”
“Boy, talk about emotional over rational!
In Catholic grade school we were graded for "Self Control".
You guys are just trying to get out of jury duty.
The Army Infantry wouldn't even want emotional wack-jobs like you guys.
They'd make ya cooks!”
“Who's to say I wasn't infantry?”
“Itsonlynatural, yes she is a wack job, yes her life is over one way or another, but that doesn't mean that we all couldn't learn something from this tragedy. That is why I am looking at the "complex reason".”
“Ever seen "Alice's Restaurant"?
I don't care if you were Stonewall Jackson.”
Sure let's keep her around and we can all pay for her to live while people like yourself study her, write a book, then discover you were completely wrong in 10 years because the human mind is way to complex to put into words, then study the next person, write a book, discover you're wrong again...
Not on my dime...
Mental health is highly under-rated.
Its good that your sister is keeping a grip on reality.
I have five sisters.
The one you met at Campmor got away from a certified jerk and now that the kids are old enough, they chose to live with her.
She spare the family the details until it was over.
My brothers and I might have resorted to ape-like reaction in this man's case......who knows?”
“Maybe some of you knuckle-draggers could benefit from gettin' stoned yourselves~@%^>”
“Thanks, Tom, I appreciate your understanding. My sister actually aided her husband in driving her family away, because she knew we would take action if we knew of some of the things going on.”
“le Subtil -
That is a rather awful image.”
“Last week we had a local 20 year old mother throw her infant over a bluff. She drove down the highway and called the cops about an abduction. Well her story kept changing so they beat the truth our of her. They found the baby that night with only bruises and scratches.”
“"Just change yer diapers.....please!"
In Tom's case all he'd have to do is change his hat. NYUCK NYUCK!”
Texas executes jaywalkers and litterbugs.”
“Ship her to California and let her share a cell with Charles Manson.
He could provide her with therapy while she pays her debt to society.”
“I think she would probably drown ol' Charlie in his soup.”
“Now we haven't executed a jaywalker in over 10 years, we are however, very hard on litterbugs.
"Don't Mess with Texas"”
“1. I have heard that there is very little "follow-up" treatment that a judge can order if a person is found not guilty by reason of insanity. Therefore, the jury felt even more compelled to find her guilty so thatshe would not have the chance to do this again.
2. Let's say the shoe was on the other foot. Let's say that the husband/father committed the crime. Would anyone, (especially women), be saying that the wife was culpable? That man would be injected within a year.”
“And, I am not totally opposed to the "insanity" plea, but there has to be a degree of "guilty by reason of insanity", also. As a society, it would be great if more of the taboo surrounding mental health would fall away, and people could more freely seek help.”
“Dunadan, how many men do you know would consider staying home and taking care of 5 kids age 7 and under, AND homeschooling them. The jury would definitely feel sorry for him, and consider it normal for him to crack.”
“Yo, I was home with my three sons for a while.
At least I didn't have to home school them.
But I did get my fill of Mr Rogers!
Ooooo, ya rat!
Osama mighta hadta change HIS head-wrap a time or two.....what with all those jugs fulla TNT fallin' outta the sky.”
“Well I guess I'll give my 2 cents. Obviously she is very sick even if her illness is not considered to be a clinical definition of insanity. However, I really do not understand the concept that someone mental does not have to face the consequences of their actions. If she is not mentally ill, she deserves death. If she is mentally ill but totally incurable, then going on to meet your maker has to better than rotting in a cell or mental ward. And finally if she is mentally insane but curable how will she be able to live with her actions in the future?”
“As this case is played out in the media and by the public, I just don't see much sympathy for a male in the same situation. Just an opinion on my part.
My brother remained married to a woman with serious mental health issues for 13 years. She finally got so bad that he sought a divorce. The courts put him through hell and did not question her abilities as a parent. Guess who has the kids, now? Not her, but not because of the court.”
“There's no question about this woman facing the consequences of her actions.
Those who oppose the death penalty object to the state resorting to the sort of barbarism and primitive retribution that is practiced by ctiminals and mentally ill persons.”
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