Who believes in Global Warming?

“�tiltTiltBAM must not have any new Palen lies to spread.�
tatt1e ta1e

Stupid, it's spelled Palin. Don't even know who you're voting for do ya?”

“Spelling over substance.”

“
Cooling climate �consensus� of 1970s never was
By Sid Perkins
Web edition : Tuesday, October 14th, 2008

Myth often cited by global warming skeptics debunked

The reasons to disbelieve that humans are causing global warming are many and varied, skeptics say. For example: Natural factors such as long-term variations in solar radiation are causing the rise in worldwide average temperature. The urban heat island effect is skewing modern weather data, so the warming observed in recent decades isn�t real. And besides, not long ago experts all believed the Earth was cooling, not warming.

Actually, research has shown that many such ideas are bogus. While changes in solar output have slightly increased global average temperature since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the planet-warming effect of man-made greenhouse gases is about 20 times larger (�Heated dispute� letter, SN: 10/27/07, p. 271). And although cities are warmer than neighboring rural areas, that phenomenon doesn�t mask recent warming trends in long-established cities (�Don�t blame the cities,� SN Online: 9/5/08).

Now, new research also skewers the global warming skeptics� claim that, in the 1970s, scientists believed that an ice age was imminent. Researchers of the day had discovered that Earth had been cooling since the 1940s. Some believed that continued increases in the amount of planet-cooling aerosols kicked up or emitted by human activity � dust and smog, for example �could easily tip the planet into an ever-deepening cycle of cooling, skeptics have repeatedly pointed out. That wave of concern was obviously a false alarm, the skeptics note, so maybe today�s scientists are equally mistaken about global warming.

Not true, climatologist Thomas C. Peterson of the National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C., and his colleagues report in the September Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. The team�s survey of major journal papers published between 1965 and 1979 found that only seven articles predicted that global average temperature would continue to cool. During the same period, 44 journal papers indicated that the average temperature would rise and 20 were neutral or made no climate predictions.



Sorry to burst your bubble like that ---- Better find some other bogus crap to latch onto.

”

“Speaking of the gullibility of the supposed elite...”

“Funny how several of us, from different states, have said that we were taught in school by our xcience teachers and science books that there was a coming ice age. Silly article.”

“That's rich. Tilt posts that article as if he believes there's "consensus" now about global warming.”

“It's amazing how anti-Science the wingnuts have become. � I would think the results of the last eight years would cause them to rethink that.

”

“Consensus science isn't.”

“I wonder if Tilt knows what consensus means? Maybe he thinks it means something else?

I also wonder if he ever reads his owns posts.

(I wonder a lot.)”

“I would think the results of the last eight years would cause them to rethink that.

You mean the last eight years? The eight where there was no gain in global temps? Those eight years? I can't believe someone who tries to pass themselves off as an egg head can so blatantly ignore the evidence in favor for political agendas.

I blame it on too much Frank Zappa makin' him stupid.”

“Kids today are in for a wild ride.”

“Whoa Nigal! There's no such thing as too much Frank Zappa.”

“
� � �Here come that crazy screamin' sound!

”

“Funny:

2008 will be coolest year of the decade

Funnier:

Global average for 2008 should come in close to 14.3C, but cooler temperature is not evidence that global warming is slowing, say climate scientists

Of course not, lol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/dec/05/climate-change-weather?ic”

“warming is the new colding”

“Is that Gomez Yopants?”

“POZNAN, Poland - The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.  Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke out in 2007. The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.
The U.S. Senate report is the latest evidence of the growing groundswell of scientific opposition rising to challenge the UN and Gore. Full Report Set To Be Released in the Next 24 Hours – Stay Tuned… 
A hint of what the upcoming report contains:    
"I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion." - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.   
"Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical." -  Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology  and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called "among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years."  
Warming fears are the "worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists." - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.  
"The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn't listen to others. It doesn't have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists," - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.  
"The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity." - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico  
"It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don't buy into anthropogenic global warming." - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA. 
"Even doubling or (tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will." – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.
"After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet." - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.  
"For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.  
"Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact." - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.  
"Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined." - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.
"Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning." - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.
"CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn't pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver's seat and developing nations walking barefoot." - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.
"The [global warming] scaremongering has its justification in the fact that it is something that generates funds." - Award-winning Paleontologist Dr. Eduardo Tonni, of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata.  # #
In addition, the report will feature new peer-reviewed scientific studies and analyses refuting man-made warming fears and a heavy dose of inconvenient climate developments. (See Below: Study: Half of warming due to Sun! –Sea Levels Fail to Rise? - Warming Fears in 'Dustbin of History'”

“Pfftt.....you're just not smart enough to understand that MMGW causes warming, cooling, rain, snow, draught, fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, Walmart tramplings, ice melting, ice forming, birds migrating, gay marriage, floods, strong southerly winds, mild westerly winds, dead batteries---the list goes on. When will you people wake up and realize we're doomed?


Hey! Shouldn't I get paid for product endorsements? LMAO!
last edited: 12/10/08 7:39:56 AM”

“bump”

“The flurries tied a record for Houston's earliest snowfall ever and warmed the hearts of winter weather lovers who have pined for snow since it last made an appearance on Christmas Eve 2004.

"I've got a pot roast in the Crock-Pot, and I'm going to go home, change into my warmest pajamas and eat pot roast and enjoy what may be the only real winter day we have all year," said Tina Arnold, an Illinois native who took advantage of the wintry backdrop to pick up Christmas presents Wednesday at The Woodlands Mall.

Since 1895, records indicate, snow has fallen this early just once — on Dec. 10, 1944.”

“Actually I have started buying carbon credits based the model Al Gore sets forth. Al Gore (AKA Algore) buys all his credits from Generation Investment Management which was founded by him, which he is the chairman, from which he draws an income from and which he will get returns as it prospers. So basically what I am doing is I figure out what my footprint is, figure out the number of credits I need to buy, take that money from my right pocket and put it in my left pocket. Then I look down my nose as all the consumers who do not buy credits who are wrecking the planet.

Global warming is the biggest scam for money and power in our human history.”

“Insult.
Insult.
Insult.
No supportive argument or proof.

Sincerely,

Tilt, Y2, et al.”

“Your side of the Argument sounds as silly as the Gore Bore, but that is TT's finist at work.”

“I've always supported nuclear energy, and I'm a Dem.

I'm also skeptical of Global Warming, although I do think it's wise to try our best to keep our air as clean as possible even at great expense.

Ever watch a culture grow in a petri dish?
Q: What happens to it?
A: Lag phase, Log phase, Stability, then Death.
Why? It basically consumes all 'food' and drowns in it's own waste.


Anyway... anybody familiar with "DIMMING THE SUN"?

It turns out that something like 20% less sunlight is reaching the surface of the Earth today compared to the end of WWII. (That number could be wrong, it's been a while since I watched the program... but still, it's a significant percentage).

It turns out that "Particulate Pollution" (diesel exhaust, burned coal smoke, etc...) actually block the sun from reaching the surface... this causes some problems but it also keeps us cooler.

One of the problems? Remember the droughts in Ethiopia? Turns out this particulate pollution (from the US primarily) blocked enough sun that ocean surface evaporation was reduced... and clouds didn't form... and rains didn't come to Africa...

We reduced our particulate pollution substantially and the rains came back pretty quickly...

BUT... the temperature rose at the same time... so... It's complicated.

If we have particulate pollution we reduce rainfall, stay cooler and have increased respiratory problems...

If we clear the particulate pollution we get rain and breath easier, but it heats up and our ice caps melt...

and we do have evidence that we are, at least partly, responsible and can take actions to affect weather patterns...

Anyway... I don't have all the information and I'm not a scientist... I'm just sharing with you my memories of the show...

If you wanna delve more into this idea of "Dimming the Sun" you can go here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/”

“Maybe it's just here in Michigan, but the sun seems to dim late in the day, every day. I get worried about it but then it's usually right back to it's original brightness the next morning. Talk about a roller coaster ride!”

“salebored offers what exactly?

personal insults.

salebored thinks everybody except him is a 'winger', like he has some special insight into our world that nobody else has

Wow salebored, please speak to us your infinite wisdom. You're so witty with your Dr. Suess messages.

I think you're as brilliant as a crap after eating a king size Nestle Crunch.

If anybodys winging it, it's you.”

“George Bush and his anti-scientific idiocies are on the way OUT ----- NOW we can finally get to work on what needs to be done.”

“Well I guess if anyone knows idiocy, it'll be T*lt.”

“Don't waste your time Icky. These are just trolls.”

“LOl...I love that line.”

“Actually, Tilt, I'm making the case for "Global Cooling"...

The weather is fluid. It's very fluid.

I'm sure most of you have heard of the "Butterfly Effect".... It comes from a fella named Lorenz, I believe... He was modeling weather patterns on his computer and, through a series of events, discovered that weather really can't be predicted because the smallest change CAN have an enormous consequence...

Mathematically, at least, something as insignificant as a butterfly flapping its wings in Japan CAN cause a tornado in Kansas... Something so tiny can be so significant.

So... I suppose cars driving around stir up air more than a butterfly... and particles and chemicals will have their own effects...

Fluid dynamics. Chaos. Sensitive dependence on initial conditions.

It's a VERY complicated subject and for those who know the math/science well can basically make whatever case they want... and we laypeople won't be able to keep up. We'll just pick and choose which 'experts' we want to follow... and it's frustrating.

But, the point is (for me, at least) that little differenced can have profound effects... what those effects are going to be are debatable and likely not really knowable...

I personally choose to err on the side of keeping my air as clean as possible simply because I like to breath with as little difficulty as possible. I like breathing.”

“Sensitive dependence on initial conditions....and for those who know the math/science well can basically make whatever case they want..

Exactly - it's impossible to develop a genuinely predictive model with such lousy and incomplete inputs that are available today. Remember Nuclear Winter? Bad modeling and politics. History is repeating itself with Anthropogenic Global Warming.”

“Don't waste your time ickyma. T*lt is just a troll.”

“AteHeTwo+TwoMore- your stand point may very well define me as above, but I don't need a pile to stand on to see both ends of the spectrum”

“Exactly - it's impossible to develop a genuinely predictive model with such lousy and incomplete inputs that are available today. Remember Nuclear Winter? Bad modeling and politics. History is repeating itself with Anthropogenic Global Warming.”

The point is: It doesn't matter how good your data is... or how much of it you have... The nature of the fluid system prevents any accurate predictions.

At this point, again, I choose to err on the side of keeping my air clean. So, ultimately, I'm on the side of the "green" types... but not necessarily for "Global Warming" reasons... My reasons are more immediate, tangible, and practical, as far as I'm concerned: Clean, Breathable air and fewer respiratory problems. That's good enough for me.”

“So, ultimately, I'm on the side of the "green" types

I doubt the Great and Infallible Tilt sees you that way, though, when you call his global warming predictions bunk. He probably sees you as a right wing scumbag, and he's most likely wishing your great grandchildren to burn.”

“I doubt it... He and I are of similar mind on most other things... I tend to be a "statistical outlier" when it comes to Global Warming...

I'm a Liberal Democrat who is skeptical about "Global Warming" or "Global Climate Change" ...

...but, I do support most of the initiatives supported by the "green" types... just for different reasons. :)”

“Please don't feed the trolls.”

“I doubt it..

You don't know tilt very well, do you - LOL”

“The FACT of the matter is that global temps have fallen .3 degrees F during the Bush years. That's a fact, not a theory, or a computer model. It's the data, the quantitative results of measurements. It's the truth, not a leap of faith, not even an agenda or an industry. It's a FRIKKIN fact.

Proving once again that half the liberals are liars, the other half idiots.

Wake up people...”

“Proving once again that half the liberals are liars, the other half idiots. Doesn't prove any of that.

I just posted above my argument for Cooling and it's been a verifiable thing...

It does, however, demonstrate that this is a complex problem... and I suspect the Gore types are wrong on some things... and so are those who think there's "nothing" to this.

So... when those who think there's 'nothing' to this are later shown to be wrong on some of their conclusions, will you make a sweeping generalization that they are all"liars and idiots"?

It's complicated. Mistakes of understanding will be made on all sides.

It just seems prudent, to me, that we should all want clean air for breathing.”

“Avoiding the clean air issue is what made such a big deal out of the 'green house gas MYTH' that made Gore rich. The attempt to argue about things we can't smell or see was an opportunity for the right to atleast be able to carry the debate onward to the outer fringe of the cosmos.

The right does have to make religion of these issues because most of their views are filtered through concepts of faith.
last edited: 12/11/08 8:25:15 AM”

“The right does have to make religion of these issues because most of their views are filtered through concepts of faith.
- saleboring

Awww, you're just upset because you weee one of those wrong about global warming.

salebored, you're as insightful as a mole.

”

“The FACT of the matter is that global temps have fallen .3 degrees F during the Bush years Strat

The biggest stockmarket rallies are in Bear markets. The weather any different?”

“The biggest stockmarket rallies are in Bear markets. The weather any different?”
salebored


uh, if it's co2 induced. ... guess not. must be based on human emotion”

“Are all the angry right-wingers present?”

“Human behavior is exempt for the laws of physics? Tell us how we are bigger than nature.”

“Moles sure are cute. Better have that one checked by a dermatologist though.”

“Don't forget the proctologist for the mole hole.”