Who believes in Global Warming?

“yes I believe "mass die-off" would be much better, but that's part of my point, the word "extinction" is used specifically for its impact. You fear an extinction more than you fear a "die-off"”

“Who's James Lovelock and why should we believe him?

Why should we believe him over those who say it won't happen?”

“Why should we believe him over those who say it won't happen?”

better to be safe than sorry”

“Why believe the bible ,it could be wrtitten by hacks.”

“ski resorts in the Alps going out of business...

the mountains in the Alps eroding....

There really is a HUGE piece of rock on the brink of falling over there - i don't know about the dire predictins, but this should be fun to watch.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2262238,00.html

-----------------------------------------
Climate change brings Eiger to earthSteven Swinford

A SLAB of rock weighing millions of tons is poised to break away from the Eiger, one of Europe’s most treacherous mountains, and crash into the valley below, a geologist has warned.
Hans-Rudolf Keusen, who monitors the Bernese Alps for the Swiss government, said 2m cubic metres of the Eiger mountain are set to collapse, in what would be Europe’s biggest rock fall for 15 years.



The limestone slab is equivalent in volume to two Empire State Buildings. “It will be a spectacular sight,” said Keusen. “There aren’t any houses underneath, so nobody is going to get hit by a rock on the head.”

Keusen first spotted the fissure between the limestone slab and the rockface at the beginning of June. It measured 8in then, but has since widened to just over 16ft and is growing at a rate of 35in a day.

According to Keusen, the crack has been caused by the retreat of the Grindelwald glacier, which previously supported the rockface. As it has shrunk, holes in the limestone have opened and been eroded by water. He said: “In the past 25 years the glacier has regressed very quickly, by up to a metre a year. We believe this accelerated regression is the result of climate change. Without the support of the glacier, small fissures have opened in the rock which have widened significantly. This is happening very fast, and the rock could fall within days.”

In the past week tourists have been gathering in the nearby town of Grindelwald in the hope of catching the dramatic collapse, which will see 5m tons of limestone fall over 650ft.

The rockfall will not pose a direct threat to the nearby community, but Keusen said debris could settle on glaciers, blocking water flowing out of them and affecting water supplies.

For climbers, the Eiger, 13,025ft high, has long held a special resonance. Its treacherous north face was first climbed by Heinrich Harrer in 1938, the pioneering Austrian mountaineer who later sparked controversy when he became a member of the SS. The mountain was also the setting for the 1975 Clint Eastwood film, The Eiger Sanction.

According to Doug Scott, the first Briton to conquer the summit of Everest, the Alps are now more dangerous than ever: “In the past few years the alpine climbs like the Dru and the Eiger have become more and more threatened by snowfall and massive collapses. I first climbed the Alps in 1957, but they are far more dangerous today.”

While it is natural for the Alps to erode, there is growing evidence that they are collapsing at a faster rate. Two years ago three lumps of the Dolomites in northern Italy came loose, with one 250ft chunk falling more than a quarter of a mile and landing on a hikers’ trail.

According to Professor Michael Davies of Dundee University, a civil engineer and member of the International Permafrost Association, the increased rockfalls are occurring because the permafrost that stabilises the surface of the Alps is melting.

There are also concerns that climate change will have an impact on tourism. A study for the United Nations environment programme predicted that half of all ski resorts in the Alps could be forced out of business in the next 25 years by rising temperatures.

Dr Rolf Bürki, who led the project, said: “Climate change will have the effect of pushing winter sports higher and higher up the mountains, concentrating impacts in ever-decreasing areas. As ski resorts in lower altitudes face bankruptcy, so the pressure on highly environmentally upper-altitude areas rises.””

“[sarcasm font]Come on Roam, those guys are obviously spreading fear to ensure their research grants.[/sarcasm font]

The Eiger is falling, the Eiger is falling!!!”

“That's it! I have had it! Time to build a rocket ship that will take me to the sun so I can blow it up.”

“Talk about a dream job - get to climb all over the place and get paid for it.”

“made me want to rent "The Eiger Sanction"”

“oops
last edited: 7/12/06 12:18:50 PM”

“You know EVERY FREAKING year the snow melts in the Northern US. Even in Colorado....and it has been happening EVERY YEAR. I am not saying "there is NO evidence of warming" I am saying that it is Typically HUMANLY Egotistical to think we can do something about it. I am hearing ...the sun is getting hotter, etc etc.”

“The Sun has been a remarkably stable platform for a very long time, minor cyclical fluctuations are now observable by scientists

but, its typically human to say:

'Since its getting warmer, it must be the sun, it can't be us! Very egotistical to think the mindless sun would just happen to heat up at the same time the world is burning so as to confuse our cause and effect rationalizations.'

Many higher mountain areas in the world have essentially been held pretty much in place due to being frozen yearround for the last several millenia and if they start melting and collapsing, its a good indication that its getting warmer.
last edited: 7/12/06 1:13:44 PM”

“Well that settles it. You've convenced me. I'm heading out right now to buy my purple death shroud and purple Nikes. Why even wait. I'm gonna do myself in today and get it over with so I don't have to go through it tomorrow.

[screaming at the sky] "WHY OH WHY DIDN'T I LISTEN TO THE ENVIRONMENTALIST LEFT? WHHHYYYYY?"”

“now see, here's something i've always wondered - why are 'environmentalists' on the 'left'? The left of WHAT? Where is the middle? If I was left handed would I have to be an 'environmentalist'?


i'm so foncusded.....”

“Before Newt Gingrich came along with the so-called Contract with America, I was a Moderate, LOL...

Then that whole bunch of wacko's went WAY to the 'right'... so now I'm 'left'... by default.”

“forgive me if this has already been posted but i'm not looking through this whole GD thread...there's a special on discovery about it this sunday

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/globalwarming/globalwarming.html?clik=netmain_feat1”

“The left of WHAT? Where is the middle?

there's very little "middle" left...those of us who are left here are scratching our heads wondering where everyone went...it's getting lonely on the fence
last edited: 7/12/06 2:25:48 PM”

“There are also good resources at the NASA/Goddard Climate & Radiation Branch website...

http://climate.gsfc.nasa.gov/links.php”

“Check *this* out...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-sci-greenland25jun25,0,6885120,full.story”

“I would like to know what is actually going on with Greenland because others say there is no net melting there at all.

I bet we'll find out before to long who knows what they are talking about, 21' hmmmm?. I like a good disaster.
last edited: 7/12/06 7:08:42 PM”

“I've been left out of the middle also, right?”

“Geographical time includes now.”

“Goldwater would be a liberal today, but that's not news.”

“Hummm, 21' of sealevel rise! My yard sits at 8', my downstairs at 10' and my upstairs at 18'. Well, at least my attic will be dry.

All these things have been talked about for some time. Often preceded with the words at least I won't see it in my lifetime. Well, I been seeing more and more of those post lifetime things lately. The temperatures of the oceans are the key. Water temps in the north Atlantic are on the increase and more ice will melt. Thusfar most sea level rise has been from thermal expansion from the melting of sea ice. Whether we are causing global warming or not steps should be taken to avert potential disaster. For starters building in areas vulnerable to sea level rise should be halted. Unfortunately, building along the coast is ever increasing. I think it should be a build at your own risk areas. We already have so many people living along our coasts that a few more Katrina sized stroms could bankrupt the national flood insurance program not to mention the treasury which is already bankrupt. More major storms are projected for years to come. More major population centers may be hit. Sea level rise will only increase the damage. I don't have a problem with people building their dream beach house. I just don't think people in Ohio and Nebraska should have to pay for it when it is destroyed.

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/NASA_Scientist_Claims_Warmer_Ocean_Waters_Reducing_Ice_Worldwide.html
last edited: 7/13/06 1:08:16 PM”

“In 1995 the guys at Goddard were saying it was just a question of how bad it would be.

Has anyone checked out the "Clean Coal" website that's being promoted? At least twice a week I see some child on TV directing me to learn The Truth about this technology.


I read in Science News how increased CO2 levels do wonders for poison ivy.... I remember the power industry types saying how great that would be for plants.... Always grasping at some sort of Silver Lining, I guess.

There's an article in the new issue about the possibe increased risk of wildfire due to average rise in temperature... Check the link above.”

“

I just don't think people in Ohio and Nebraska should have to pay for it when it is destroyed.
Bateauxdriver.

This is sort of what I was hinting, when we had a discussion a while ago about environmental impacts in your area.”

“On the positive side, we can use our kayaks more.”

“(cue Eric Idle, et al...)


"Always look on the Bright Side of Life... !"

(whistles)”

“Birch actually that is a bright side. We could see longer growing seasons further north. It could be a real winfall for Canada and Russia.”

“Two story trucks and two story boats, two story houses and no story votes.”

“The Discovery Channel just aired the premeire of a 2 hour presentation about 'Global Warming' hosted by Tom Brokaw.

I'm sure it will rerun often over the coming months

and they said that Global Warming is the worst threat facing the world right now.

Terrorism and resource depletion, that is caused by overpopulation which is also the cause of the unnatural aspect of global warming, seem more of a threat to me.
last edited: 7/16/06 9:06:49 PM”

“I recorded it, and am watching it right now. pretty scary stuff.”

“Some might consider it scary or upsetting, the term I use is intriguing.”

“Or since TOM BROKAW is doing it TOTAL BOVINE SCATOLOGY.

REMEMBER the Global Warming threat is blamed for heating, cooling, flooding, drought, when the wind blows, when the wind doesn't blow, snow fall, too little snow fall....etc etc ad infinitium, ad nauseaum ....the Enviorowackos are the crowd that accepted the old hard line Socialists/Communists when that failed theory died with the Soviet Union.

Global warming leadership are by and large wannabes who blame everyone else for being successful. Their aim is to shackle success (NOTE that CHINA and INDIA are not part of ANY KYOTO PLAN) so that they won't feel so guilty for being pathetic failures in life.”

“Talk about boolschidt!!

You're slingin' it pretty this morning, XL!”

“Then, does waste make haste?”

“For those who are comforted by the fact that polar ice-cap melting has been observed to be occurring on Mars (and so the Sun must be hotter of late which would make the warming that is happening on Earth natural, not human caused, right?)

Consider why the ice-caps of Mars actually grow and shrink over fairly long cycles (not necassarily due to a warmer Sun):


"The Martian climate is more influenced by the shape of the Martian orbit than the climate of the Earth is influenced by the shape of the Earth's orbit. The orbit of Mars is more oval-shaped than that of the Earth. The difference between the oval shape of the Martian orbit and a perfect circle is called the *eccentricity* of the orbit.

Because the Martian orbit has large differences in the distance from the sun, the surface of Mars can experience larger changes in temperature than does the Earth.

Changes in the inclination of the axis of revolution of Mars is also much more extreme than that of the Earth. This means that differences between summer and winter of Mars can be more extreme than on Earth.

The high eccentricity of the Martian orbit, combined with the high inclination of the axis of revolution, means that, if conditions are just right, there are times when Mars can experience a great deal more warming than normal. These extremes in the warming of the surface of Mars means that Mars has more potential for climate change brought about by orbit conditions than does the Earth."


http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mars/interior/Mars_climate_history.html
last edited: 7/17/06 6:57:37 AM”

“So Nature could have something to do with Global Warming on Mars...but Not on Earth?”

“The right-wing crazies like XL aren't interested in evidence and the scientific consensus. They just sign on to their favorite right-wing blog site and Drudge or some fiction writer or someone else will tell them what to think.”

“Y2, don't be so mean.

You might hurt someone's feelings.”

“Yes, much better to buy into conspiracies and theories like global warming and evolution and repeat them so much they become fact within our minds.”

“Climb into a coal mine that's inpart the cause, don't be affraid of a long cool pause.”

“No one is trying to say there is not some element of a natural cycle in the warming on Earth, simply that the sun has not warmed appreciably of late and so Solar warming is not the cause of cyclical changes on Mars.

The warming on Earth is being observed during a cycle which the scientists state should be a period of cooling due to natural cycles which have been supposedly identified, but human caused warming is overcoming the natural cooling, or else they are mistaken.”

““Yes, much better to buy into conspiracies and theories like global warming and evolution and repeat them so much they become fact within our minds.”
Nigal
6:19:18 AM
7/17/06

you don't buy the evolution theory? these two things not only have nothing really in common, but the science is completely different. Climate change is much more theoretical - evolution is fairly well documented (to say the least).”

“The option to fiction is nonfiction. Maybe?”

“Lone? okay so this is all bs?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

That is JUST IT. The Warmies discount everyting but "MANKIND" in their programs. I refuse to believe we are the sole controller of the weather. Plus the Warmies tell us there is NOW NOTHING WE CAN DO unless ONLY THE FREE COUNTRIES control their freedom.

SORRRY....”

“I'm guessing you only heard every third word when you watched the program, XL?

"We thought we didn't turn the screw that killed ourselves, but the period shows otherwise.”

“Ah the guilt of the LEFTISTS....Love it. Since you can't have IT...take IT away from everyone...LOL. Keep it up you get sillier by the day.

I just want to know WHY is only AMERICA and the WESTERN nations begin considered the PROBLEM> if this is WIPING us out...why not the WHOLE world?”

“more anecdotal data...

http://www.summitpost.org/article/200997/a-change-in-the-map.html”