The Wars on Drugs and Terror

“This is a good read from www.counterpunch.org/


"War On Terror?
It's As Bad As War on Drugs
By Rep. Ron Paul

I would like to draw an analogy between the drug war and the war against terrorism. In the last 30 years, we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a failed war on drugs. This war has been used as an excuse to attack our liberties and privacy. It has been an excuse to undermine our financial privacy while promoting illegal searches and seizures with many innocent people losing their lives and property. Seizure and forfeiture have harmed a great number of innocent American citizens.

Another result of this unwise war has been the corruption of many law enforcement officials. It is well known that with the profit incentives so high, we are not even able to keep drugs out of our armed prisons. Making our whole society a prison would not bring success to this floundering war on drugs. Sinister motives of the profiteers and gangsters, along with prevailing public ignorance, keep this futile war going. Illegal and artificially high priced drugs drive the underworld to produce, sell and profit from this social depravity. Failure to recognize that drug addiction, like alcoholism, is a disease rather than a crime, encourage the drug warriors in efforts that have not and will not ever work. We learned the hard way about alcohol prohibition and crime, but we have not yet seriously considered it in the ongoing drug war.

Corruption associated with the drug dealers is endless. It has involved our police, the military, border guards and the judicial system. It has affected government policy and our own CIA. The artificially high profits from illegal drugs provide easy access to funds for rogue groups involved in fighting civil wars throughout the world. Ironically, opium sales by the Taliban and artificially high prices helped to finance their war against us. In spite of the incongruity, we rewarded the Taliban this spring with a huge cash payment for promises to eradicate some poppy fields. Sure.

For the first 140 years of our history, we had essentially no Federal war on drugs, and far fewer problems with drug addiction and related crimes was a consequence. In the past 30 years, even with the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on the drug war, little good has come of it. We have vacillated from efforts to stop the drugs at the source to severely punishing the users, yet nothing has improved. This war has been behind most big government policy powers of the last 30 years, with continual undermining of our civil liberties and personal privacy. Those who support the IRS's efforts to collect maximum revenues and root out the underground economy, have welcomed this intrusion, even if the drug underworld grows in size and influence.

The drug war encourages violence. Government violence against nonviolent users is notorious and has led to the unnecessary prison overpopulation. Innocent taxpayers are forced to pay for all this so-called justice. Our eradication project through spraying around the world, from Colombia to Afghanistan, breeds resentment because normal crops and good land can be severely damaged. Local populations perceive that the efforts and the profiteering remain somehow beneficial to our own agenda in these various countries.

Drug dealers and drug gangs are a consequence of our unwise approach to drug usage. Many innocent people are killed in the crossfire by the mob justice that this war generates. But just because the laws are unwise and have had unintended consequences, no excuses can ever be made for the monster who would kill and maim innocent people for illegal profits. But as the violent killers are removed from society, reconsideration of our drug laws ought to occur.

A similar approach should be applied to our war on those who would terrorize and kill our people for political reasons. If the drug laws and the policies that incite hatred against the United States are not clearly understood and, therefore, never changed, the number of drug criminals and terrorists will only multiply. Although this unwise war on drugs generates criminal violence, the violence can never be tolerated. Even if repeal of drug laws would decrease the motivation for drug dealer violence, this can never be an excuse to condone the violence. On the short term, those who kill must be punished, imprisoned, or killed. Long term though, a better understanding of how drug laws have unintended consequences is required if we want to significantly improve the situation and actually reduce the great harms drugs are doing to our society.

The same is true in dealing with those who so passionately hate us that suicide becomes a just and noble cause in their effort to kill and terrorize us. Without some understanding of what has brought us to the brink of a worldwide conflict in reconsidering our policies around the globe, we will be no more successful in making our land secure and free than the drug war has been in removing drug violence from our cities and towns.

Without some understanding why terrorism is directed towards the United States, we may well build a prison for ourselves with something called homeland security while doing nothing to combat the root causes of terrorism. Let us hope we figure this out soon. We have promoted a foolish and very expensive domestic war on drugs for more than 30 years. It has done no good whatsoever. I doubt our Republic can survive a 30-year period of trying to figure out how to win this guerilla war against terrorism. Hopefully, we will all seek the answers in these trying times with an open mind and understanding."

Ron Paul is a libertarian/Republican who represents Texas's 14th congressional district.”

“*”

“blah blah blaH BLAH
get a hobby”

“*”

“"People who quote other people endlessly, do so because they lack originality of thought"”

“Free Huey Newton.”

“Free Fig Newtons!”

“Look how successful Israel has been fighting THEIR war against terrorism for 30 years. Success is ours in the year 2525!”

“This is a very interesting video by Penn and Teller about the drug war. Having studied quite a bit about the subject now I must say, "Legalize it.".

Rated R vid for language.”

“Hows about an abstract.”

“It basically lays out the facts about how much the war on drugs costs compared to the outcome and lack of success. It also goes into the issues of personal freedoms but not deep enough IMHO. Larry Elders does a much better job of laying out what the benefits of legalizing drugs would be. I always envisioned a society of junkies and crime going through the roof and it’d be the fall of the western world. I believe now I was wrong.”

“Thanks. This is one issue that seems to be fairly black and white - that is, that the war on drugs is a complete failure.

I've never understood why some conservatives cling to the "ban it" mantra, when we've had decades of proof of it not working (and while they're smoking cigs and drinking beer while decrying mary jane).

Must be the religious right behind 95% of it - no other single group of people are so oblivious to truth.”

“Yeah, there are like 55,000 deaths due to alcohol but no one ever died from pot. Some 84% of Americans don't want drugs legalized yet 74% say the war on drugs doesn't work. I think the 84% is due to ignorance such as I was under before studying it.

Look at it this way, nearly every family in America lives within 1 mile of a store that sells alcohol and we don't have rampant alcoholism. The same would go for pot. During prohibition there was like an 80% jump in alcoholism. After it was repealed it fell back down.”

“Mutt, I am a conservative and I have always felt that pot should be legalized. I am less certain about harder drugs, but the issues of organized crime and the very little return on tax dollars to enforce the laws are the same for hard drugs as well. But, the only reason I am posting is to ask you if you really believe that there is no significant number of liberals and/or democrats against the legalization of drugs?”

“I agree with the legalize it and inspect. The biggest problem with Pot today is that frequently they lace it with Meth or similar drugs to make it more powerful.
I say legalize all of it. Then give an addict, 3 chances to get assistance on the public dime. After three, dude, suck it up we paid our fair share.”

“Can you imagine this scene at the local gas station....

yeah, give me $10 worth of unleaded, a 20 oz mountain dew, a three musketeers bars, a bag of doritos and, um, oh yeah, a pack of Jamaican Red in the box.”

“I'm sure there are liberals who are against legalization of pot, Hyway, but it's the conservatives who are by far most vocal about it.”

“and your solution to solving the problem is to politicize it when a conservative posts that he has changed his mind?”

“Off the top of my head here are a few benefits of legalizing it.

*Regulation of potency. Accidental Ods would fall to next to nothing.

*Regulation of purity. As LX stated.

*The spread of AIDS by needle would drop dramatically.

*Tax revenue. Tax revenue would be used for rehab programs and education.

*Price reduction. A ready supply of quality, regulated drugs would bring prices way down by eliminating the whole black market.

*Economic growth. The American farmer would be back in business. Retail sales would also be big business.

*Our over crowded prisons would be emptied by nearly half and the real criminals would be serving full sentences because of the prisons not being over crowded.

*Law enforcement agencies and the courts would be freed up to go after the real criminals rather than chasing drugs all the time.

*Crime and murder could actually go down. With the absolving of the whole black market you wouldn’t have drug deals going bad, and wouldn’t have as many people committing crimes to feed their habits (remember, the prices would be affordable).


Next week we will discuss why prostitution needs to be legalized…

LOL!
last edited: 2/27/06 8:38:36 AM”

“I have always thought drugs needed to be legal. You can control it better. You can find out who is addicted and get them help. On the money side think about taxes. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed like crazy do the same with drugs.”

“I'm fairly conservative - yet I've always been for the legalization of marijuana.”

“"On the money side think about taxes. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed like crazy do the same with drugs.”

I believe the taxes should kept to a minimum and be used only for drug education, rehab and other costs from the drugs. I don't want drugs taxed to death to pave roads or buy bombs like the taxes on alcohol and tobacco.”

“Nigal, there is a good book called Busted: Stone Cowboys, Narco-Lords and Washington's War on Drugs that has a bunch of essays summing up what a crock the war on drugs is. It's super-good reading.

One of the essays talks about how kids who find out marijuana isn't as evil as they were led to believe think, "Well if they lied to me about this, what else did they lie to me about?" Heroin really does kill you, but since "they" cried wolf about marijuana, kids don't believe "them" anymore. I think criminalizing drugs is the same as preaching abstinence: people just don't talk about it, and want to pretend it doesn't exist...which doesn't do any good at all. I know my parents just said, "Drugs are evil, period,"...meanwhile we discovered that wasn't necessarily true. However, my dad's cousin (who he was very close with growing up) had died of a heroin overdose; but none of us kids ever knew that until after my brother had died of one, too.

There's a quote from Bill Hicks that goes, "This isn't a war on drugs, this is a war on personal freedom." I really believe that, and that it's a war on people, too. I think anyone who knows the facts about the war on drugs, and still believes in it, couldn't possibly care about actual people.”

“The big reason many people give for being against legalization of pot is that its a gateway drug to harder stuff. Not that I would know or anything, but it isn't the weed itself that is the gateway, its the thrill of doing something bad/illegal and the introduction into the "underworld". Kids will still be breaking the law when smoking pot, but it would be the equivalent of smoking cigarettes bought for you from a store by an older friend not from the local dealer who may or may not be selling harder stuff as well.”

“Also, I've heard that there has never been a society, outside of one in the Arctic, that hasn't used some form of drugs. I think it's human nature to want to experience things differently from the way we normally do. I don't think any kind of war on drugs will ever change that.”

“Gateway? Heck drugs and alchohol are a symptom of the problem, I hate to tell but abuse is more of a symptom of a personal problem.
Nigal, legalize prostitution.....its called marriage. Think about it, legal prostitutes....Deepriver still wouldn't get any action.”

“The main ones to benefit from legalization would be the current lawbreakers.

*Law enforcement agencies and the courts would be freed up to go after the real criminals rather than chasing drugs all the time.
Nigal

So people who break laws, at least some laws, are not real criminals!

Also, the dream of lower prices may be just that, a dream!
last edited: 2/27/06 8:57:35 AM”

“Make a list of who is for and against these laws and how change would effect them.You'll find the dealers sitting in the cops laps in a church somewhere.”

“smoking dope isn't a sign of a personal problem. The abuse of it may be.”

“nowslimmer, you ever exceed the speed limit? Or are you a law abiding citizen?”

“its a gateway drug to harder stuff.

*groan*”

““The main ones to benefit from legalization woukld be the current lawbreakers.”

No, we would ALL benefit. I don’t know about you but I don’t care to have my hard earned money thrown down a rat hole like the war on drugs that has ZERO effect on the problem. Most of the benefits I gave would be enjoyed by all. I know I would like a reduction in crime and the spread of AIDS not to mention the fact all the drugs and money that cross our borders would be reduced to next to nothing. And you will notice none of the reasons I gave were, We can all get high without getting in trouble.”.

“*Law enforcement agencies and the courts would be freed up to go after the real criminals rather than chasing drugs all the time.
Nigal
So people who break laws, at least some laws, are not real criminals!”

Call them victimless or non violent offenders if you like. It is an unenforcable law just like prohibition was.

”Also, the dream of lower prices may be just that, a dream!”

It's not a dream. It's simple facts of supply and demand. A bag of brown heroin which was 5-10% pure in the 70’s cost $30. Today that same bag of herion but being 80-90% pure costs $4. Thanks drug wars! Now imagine if it was grown, produced and sold within America. It would be even cheaper. We can also look at the price differences of alcohol during prohibition and know what would really happen.

Did ya even watch the video?”

“Hyway - I thought about that and wondered why we don't have similar movements to change all the traffic laws. In some cases the laws are used to generate money, while based upon an intention to protect the general public.”

“I think the myth of pot being a gateway drug is hooey. I smoked pot in high school but never did anything harder. Why? Because I had an older brother who looked out for me, taught me that drug abuse was bad and he was a role model for me. This is the same way parents all across America, every day, keep their kids from getting in trouble with booze.”

“I don't think anyone finished reading my post about it being a gateway drug. I said that it isn't the drug that's the gateway, its the 'underworld' that goes along with the illegality of pot.”

“Drugs would lose a lot of their mystic and glam if it was legal also. Kind of like the difference between going to a bar when you're 20 and 21.”

“No mention of the war on terror. Another rat hole for money to be tossed in with the same basic players as the drug circus.”

“*Hits Nigal up side the head with a wet trout*

;-)

Make it legal, tax it, and also make laws that if you have enough spare cash for dope, you don't get welfare.
Same goes for beer and cigs.”

“nowslimmer, many people think you can just change speed limits at the drop of the hat, but you can't. Or you can't and be a responsible public servant. Most roads are designed with a particular design speed in mind (usually 5 mph over the posted speed limit). If a road is designed for a speed limit of 45 mph it will have sharper vertical and horizontal curves, shorter stopping sight distances and sight triangles at intersections, possibly more driveway connections may be allowed, etc. than a highway with a design speed of 70 mph.

Allowing drivers to legally exceed the design speed (even with the safety factors embedded in the calculations) is a recipe for disaster. Not just for the person exceeding the safe speed, but for other drivers and passengers. Then there is the damage to vehicles and other property (guardrail, bridge abutments, power poles, buildings, etc).

There are so many differences between legalizing drugs and eradicating speed limits that I could post all day on the subject. What my point was in the previous post was that when you said "So people who break laws, at least some laws, are not real criminals!" I was wondering if you were calling anyone who broke a traffic law a 'real criminal'?”

“Um, I hate to be a Violin here SS, but check the date on the thread. '01.

But thanks to both you and Slimmer for wanting to protect us from ourselves. :)”

“by making it legal you're giving a green light to something that is obviously bad for you and effects other people in your life...if it was just a matter of someone just getting loaded and ruining their own lives that's one thing, but for every addict there are tons more people that it would effect, like the kids of the addict or the person they kill while driving loaded

you can't really compare drugs to alcohol...it's possible to drink alcohol and not get wasted, or hooked, or become an alcoholic...the only point of drugs is to alter your state of mind and most are highly addictive, many can get you hooked with just one try

i agree it seems like a loosing battle sometimes, but what alternative do we have?...they do need to change the "war" some how to be more effective...as far as pot vs. hard drugs, i'm not real sure on that one...it seems to me that it IS possible to do a little pot from time to time and still keep it together”

“But alcohol IS a drug, and it DOES alter your state of mind. And just to argue your point, if alcohol isn't as "highly addictive" as other drugs, then where are all the people who had one beer and then never drank again?”

“Thrifty, comparing drugs to alcohol is comparing drugs to drugs.”

“it only alters your state of mind if you dring too much

then where are all the people who had one beer and then never drank again?”

but when they drink again it's not out of addiction...my second drink wasn't cause "i had to have it man", it was just because i wanted to
last edited: 2/27/06 9:48:29 AM”

“but check the date on the thread. '01. - Nigal

Doesn't count. You knew the subject was Fuego when you selected what thread to use.
I hold libbies and conservs to the same standard.”

“Like I said, alcohol is a drug, and you can't classify it separately, or classify all other drugs together physiologically, just because alcohol is legal.”

“Thrifty, comparing drugs to alcohol is comparing drugs to drugs

granted, alcohol is technically a drug...and technically so is airplane glue...it's possible to build a model with out getting high, it's possible to drink alcohol with out getting drunk (maybe not as fun)...it's not possible to do drugs with out getting high
last edited: 2/27/06 9:53:12 AM”

“Well SS if you look at the search results for 'drugs' you will see that this thread was the only thread that was appropriate and I hate making new threads when existing threads can be used. Besides, what's so feugo about it? No one is being disrespecful or fighting here.

Feugo is in the eye of the beholder.

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/index.php?title=drugs&age=9999
last edited: 2/27/06 9:52:01 AM”

“Just busting your chops...”

“thrifty, I guarentee that you know pot smokers, coke users, etc, and don't even know it. There are many recreational 'drug' users that have happy, fulfilling lives. They have spouses and well adjusted children. They hold down jobs and their success in life, or lack there of, has more to do with their own personal career drive than their drug of choice.

I have no data to prove this, but I believe there are more well adjusted drug users than 'addicted' users.”